The conversations are amazing
There’s a bunch of Chinese posts asking if the stuff about school shootings, fires, homelessness are exaggerated propaganda only to be told otherwise. It’s both hilarious and sad.
People of the US and China are both unsure of what to believe about the other, because both are so propagandized lol
Who told you that the people of China are propagandized, especially to hate other countries and peoples as much as the US does?
Their access to news is controlled and for some topics all available news is what we’d call propaganda. Particularly anything about Japan or the Taiwan issue. Most people I know there realize this to an extent but without any other information do still believe the core idea even if skeptical of details.
But at the same time I’d argue there’s no such thing as a population that’s not propagandized. In the US the big news corporations only will present views favorable to their profitability and continued growth. Sure they disagree with eachother, but it’s still always a pro-business view. State news from Russia is (I’d argue rightly) not available on many US platforms to discourage it’s influence for example.
The US does NOT have a free press and is not at all interested in freedom and free speech. Notice that there are no socialists or leftists of any kind on any news channel or in political leadership positions.
This is just untrue. There is plenty of legal press in the US of any persuasion, from anarchist to fascist.
The major US news outlets are in bed with capitalists because that’s where the money is, but there are lots of smaller outlets with other views. In China all news outlets kowtow to the government because anything else is illegal.
In China all news outlets kowtow to the government because anything else is illegal.
This is what our media tell us about their media. In every country the media kowtow to the government to some extent, but I’m not sure to exactly what extent they actually do in China, and I’m not going to take our media’s word for what that extent is.
If you do not know the extent of pressure asserted on Chinese media that is willful ignorance.
Of course “our media” (whatever you mean by that) is the only media that can report on it as Chinese media is heavily censored.
If you want to know the extent the information easy to find.
Here’s some of what Reporters Without Borders have to say
“The People’s Republic of China (PRC) is the world’s largest prison for journalists, and its regime conducts a campaign of repression against journalism and the right to information worldwide.”
“The Propaganda Department of the Chinese Communist Party sends a detailed notice to all media every day that includes editorial guidelines and censored topics.”
“Independent journalists and bloggers who dare to report “sensitive” information are often placed under surveillance, harassed, detained, and, in some cases, tortured.”
Source: https://rsf.org/en/country/china
This is from The Committee to Protect Journalists
“China has long ranked as one of the world’s worst jailers of journalists. Censorship makes the exact number of journalists jailed there notoriously difficult to determine, but Beijing’s media crackdown has widened in recent years”
Here’s Amnesty International
“Chinese authorities continued to severely curtail rights to freedoms of expression, association and peaceful assembly, including through the abusive application of laws often under the pretext of preserving national security.”
Source: https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/asia-and-the-pacific/east-asia/china/report-china/
Mostly agree with this take. I just wanted to add some nuance. I was talking to a friend about Gaza/Israel-protests in my country and said that the media doesn’t show everything. He then told a story about the protests that was supposedly not covered in the media. However, I had literally just read about that story in my newspaper.
Point is, there is some freedom of press (at least in my country) and the press is fairly pluralistic. However, to really find out what’s going on you need to read i.) several sources, and ii.) continue to focus on events after journalists took the effort to dig down. That’s a big ask for many people. And the stories that come out first tend to be most biased.
the stories that come out first tend to be most biased
I honestly think the concept of news is actually harmful, because it’s about reporting what happened, not about making the audience understand the subject. It puts a premium on getting the report out as quickly as possible, and favours the most shocking events and interpretations that draw people’s attention.
Ultimately most news are “empty calories” of information that mostly give an illusion of knowledge. “Explosion in Herptown, dozens wounded” does not meaningfully increase your understanding of the world, it mostly just makes you scared. It will take weeks until the cause and consequences of the explosion can be fully understood, and a lot of research to put that into perspective.
Ofc there is no such thing as an un-propagandized country. There are lobbyists and think tanks everywhere
Scroll down, addressed this three times in this thread already.
You mean how both China, and the US propagandize their citizens? Yeah, I’m fully aware of that already. All states will do it, as a system of control over the working class, in order to continue to exploit them.
I mean, if controlling the people wasn’t the goal, whats the purpose of the oppression of a state?
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huge false equivalence
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Friends of mine who have moved away from China. One of them had police at their door in China for social media posts that were friendly to Uyghurs (not even anything to do with the genocide, just general friendliness as a “we’re all Chinese” kind of message). Being taken to police stations for even slightly questioning the state narrative is terrifying.
Source: I heard it in a dream
Source: a friend of mine personally telling me what happened the last time he was in mainland China.
Woah I never recognized your username in the wild before. Thanks for giving us Lemmy. Huge fan.
No probs!
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You don’t know what Chinese people do or don’t know. You only know what Western governments and Western corporate media tell you Chinese people do or don’t know.
There’s nothing secret about what happened in Xinjiang. People are well aware of the terrorist attacks and of how the local and federal governments’ responded to them.
Already debunked this ~ 6 times in this thread so far.
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He’s the guy who created the website your currently using lmao
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You just made that up. You genuinely have no idea what the Chinese perception of the uyghur imprisonment is. In fact you’ve gone out of your way to call their prison system a “work camp”. I’m not even saying that it’s not a work camp. What I am saying is you wouldn’t call American prisons a work camp despite also being used for mass slave labor.
Thank goodness for the modlog! You are right on. Just because American propaganda is bad doesn’t mean Chinese isn’t bad too or that we have to defend it. Everyone should be held accountable.
I’m reminded of that ex Soviet joke about how they always knew the government was lying about their own countries but were shocked to learn it was telling the truth about america
It’s uncomfortable seeing Xi with an actual jawline…
TOPXI
If banning tik tok ends up galvanizing demand for healthcare reform I’m going to laugh my ass off
Good comrades like Lady Izdihar are taking off in a big way, might help radicalize a lot of people towards Marxism even.
Rednote’s algorithm seems very receptive to communist content, at least compared to what I’m used to. Hope it stays that way.
Me too!
spoiler
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Circle jerking about China is as ridiculous as circle jerking about the US. We’ve been here before with US vs USSR, but this time everyone has a megaphone and an IQ that can be measured with a ruler.
You keep on coping there little buddy. What’s happening is that regular people from both countries are now talking directly to each other, and finding out what life is actually like.
Uhhh, not exactly regular people. From what I’ve seen from the Rednote, at least my feed is wealthy upper-middle or upper class, while the Americans are from low to middle class.
not what I see in my feed, might depend on the interests you picked and whom you followed, etc
That’s because via GDP those two are at the same level even though they are different levels in their own country.
what was preventing them from doing it before?
Lack of will on the part of Americans to engage on Chinese platforms like Xiaohongshu. The looming TikTok ban is what pushed people over the edge.
tiktok is chinese tho so where were all the chinese users?
TikTok is a Chinese built platform, but it’s built strictly for users outside of China. The Chinese version of TikTok is Douyin. You could’ve googled this yourself in the time it took you to write this comment.
Why? Tiktok is availabe in multiple countries with completely different language, culture and laws so why not China? Why have a different version of the app specifically for china?
Because censorship lmao
I’m curious, what does this line of questioning have to do with my original comment?
Sorry for being pedantic, but those foldable work rulers are exactly 2 m long (at least in MetricLandia), which is, incidentally, the span of IQ values (0-200).
So yeah, it literally can be mapped one-to-one to a (common type of) ruler.
200cm, the american one is up to 80 inches 😁
This is a common ruler where you live?
In my country we have rulers with 12 in/ ~30cm as the most common. We also have “yardstick” which is more often a meter stick now. But no foldable rulers.
Yup. There are like 3 types of rulers: normal (a stick), foldable (this) and those retractable metallic strips.
Sticks are usually either 15 or 30 cm, while the foldables are literally always 2m.
The coils are the most ubiquitous, but I orefer the foldavles for most things since they tend to fall undet their own weight when measuring longer distances. These sre either 2 or 5 m I think.
We have the coils too, except we call it a measuring tape.
We also have have a flexible soft version used for measuring human proportions for clothing, but it’s called a “tape measure” for some reason.
I wish we had the foldable kind, that sounds useful.
Ironically the 2m folding rulers are called “inch-stick” in German
Yeah.
The 30 cm is ubiquitous for officework or drawing, while this is for tiling floors, doing plumbing, measuring walls, roofs, etc. etc… There are also those retractable coils (usually 2 or 5m), but they tend to break easily and collapse under their own weight, so they’re not as useful for some things.
I can find one like this in basically any hardware store with few exceptions (Austria). They’re almost exclusively 2m in length (I literally haven’t seen a longer or shorter one ever in my life)
Also, a meter stick sounds workable, but borderline impractical.
Eh, there’s truth and lies on both sides. Coming from someone that lived in china for 4 years and was able to engage with Chinese primary news sources. But basic healthcare in china is faster and cheaper, but then again I went to get a wart removed and they prescribed me acorn paste that accelerated the growth of the wart. So win some lose some.
It’s honestly very wholesome to see this kind of interaction. On top of cute moments like Chinese users telling the new US users that they are their “spies,” seeing a lot of blatant myth dispelling surrounding the PRC is great to help tear down the Red Scare.
tbf the people who will download this app are not scared by China in the first place
I was told that I was a spy in RL. Why would a European person learn Chinese? Clearly spy.
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Edit: the removed comment said that the social credit score existed based on this Wikimedia article.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Credit_System
In the Wikipedia article itself:
There has been a widespread misconception that China operates a nationwide and unitary social credit “score” based on individuals’ behavior, leading to punishments if the score is too low. Media reports in the West have sometimes exaggerated or inaccurately described this concept.[7][8][9] In 2019, the central government voiced dissatisfaction with pilot cities experimenting with social credit scores. It issued guidelines clarifying that citizens could not be punished for having low scores, and that punishments should only be limited to legally defined crimes and civil infractions. As a result, pilot cities either discontinued their point-based systems or restricted them to voluntary participation with no major consequences for having low scores.[7][10] According to a February 2022 report by the Mercator Institute for China Studies (MERICS), a social credit “score” is a myth as there is “no score that dictates citizen’s place in society”.[7]
I have some sources on the child and slave labor, if that helps.
https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/02/01/china-carmakers-implicated-uyghur-forced-labor
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/extra/nz0g306v8c/china-tainted-cotton
This last one is ‘Western propaganda’ but is very helpful in identifying the types of products to avoid. It’s near impossible in the US, unless you make your own textiles/clothes or only buy second-hand.
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/ilab/reports/child-labor/list-of-goods-print
Your first link is a few paragraphs with no sources whatsoever.
The second one sources Human Rights Watch, who got bodied even on reddit the last time they tried to spread this line. They pretty much source only from Zenz (a far-right anti-semitic christian evangelical who thinks birth conrtrol is genocide).
The third link has Zenz again as its main source.
Its so exhausting to have to debunk the same recycled sources over and over, so here’s a megathread:
https://dessalines.github.io/essays/socialism_faq.html#whats-going-on-with-the-uyghurs
So all of the nations with a free and open internet are pushing propaganda, and we should just take the firewalled nation of oppressively regulated speech at their word?
No nation should allow the US surveillance arms like Facebook, twitter, instagram, youtube and reddit to operate within their borders. These are US controlled entities that serve to push pro-US foreign policy, and hoover up all global communications.
For example, the most popular social media platform in India, is facebook. The US controls the main communication platform of a country with a population much larger than its own.
Countries should realize what a dangerous threat it is to have US companies control your social media.
There is a difference between a corporation manipulating their own service and a government controlling the entire internet for the nation.
No one is forcing you to use US corporate social media. Everyone needs internet access.
There is a difference between a corporation manipulating their own service and a government controlling the entire internet for the nation.
There really isn’t a fundamental difference here. US capitalists run the country, control its media, and stand above it’s political system. It’s military/defense apparatus, and police function as their hired goons.
US corporations are the US government. They outright own it. US media is state media with extra steps.
You don’t need to use social media to access the internet.
How many times must I write the difference between corporate controlled platforms and governmentally controlled internet?
dude, the CIA controls everything. Probably since at least the 60’s. Use your brain. Why do you think the most far right and “far left” media agree on the SAME THINGS when it comes to US foreign policy? US media is JUST as free as Chinese media, which is not at all. Read about the twitter leaks. Feds just emailed them to take shit down and they did it.
Yeah? Do a quick search on how to overthrow the government. Can’t do that in China.
It’s funny that we’re arguing this on a platform that’s legal in the US, and banned in China. Is lemmy.ml a US surveillance op too? Are you? Am I?
No nation has “free and open internet” in reality. Some are just more open about their biases while others try to obfuscate how they censor.
Do you know the difference between the internet and the World Wide Web?
Accessing the dark web is illegal in China, for example. They reduced access to the internet to government regulated websites, who must apply and be approved by the Chinese government to be accessible within the Great Firewall.
https://www.goclickchina.com/insights/the-complete-guide-to-the-great-firewall-of-china-gfoc/
Sure, and in the US companies like Google heavily distort search algorithms to make it so that the vast majority of people see only what’s already approved.
So you don’t like that your point was disproven and are now comparing corporate manipulation of their own services to governmental control of the entire internet?
Get real.
You’re still confusing the internet and the web.
dunno what your talking about ive never been blocked by government mandate only corporate mandates, and I can just vpn around those.
Chinese users use VPNs all the time. Additionally, western countries deliberately distort search results so the most approved sources are front and center.
I’ve been to China. VPN access requires jumping through insane hoops and disguising your traffic as different traffic. Tor is blocked. Most commercial VPNs are IP blocked. HTTPS proxy or HTTP proxy over SSH tunnel gets blocked very quickly due to traffic analysis.
uh obviously? do you not understand the distinction between corporate and government mandates? I can explain it if you need me to because its kind of critical to this whole conversation. and if you do understand the difference, then wtf is your point.
The US government literally just effectively banned a social network through government mandate.
true! of course your hand waving why it was banned and the options they were given. tiktok could have divested from chinese control in the US region they chose not to. in no way has the US government censored information from individuals as a result of that bill. they censured the business operating procedures. two very different and distinct issues when it comes to access to content.
In no way have americans been prevented from accessing the information within tiktok. compare and contrast that with say trying to find tiananmen square information in china.
in fact i’ll help everyone out, here is the ruling
I appreciate a someone making the effort to debunk but your megathread is absolute garbage, I checked a couple links, got redirected toward twitter and quora threads, so ty but don’t spread misinformation.
I need to check a lot of those links and archive them, because predictably a lot of the ones posted to US run websites like twitter get removed for going against the US-zenz narrative.
Also does the fact that these ppl use twitter or quora automatically mean they’re misinforming people?
It certainly doesn’t signal credibility
wow you have a LOT to learn. I recommend you start at the grayzone on youtube.
Are you aware the channel you’re recommending is blacklisted China?
Way to prove my point. Lol
To be clear, it is overwhelmingly Westerners that wish to depict a Chinese man as a yellow bear. You can talk about Pooh, just not in the way westerners tend to want to.
As for the Social Credit system, the version reported in western media is false and exaggerated. There is a credit system, but it’s largely for businesses and other social entities, not some Orwellian big brother system.
Did you read your own link, or just grab the headline from a google search and call it “good enough?”
It’s true that, building on earlier initiatives, China’s State Council published a road map in 2014 to establish a far-reaching “social credit” system by 2020. The concept of social credit (shehui xinyong) is not defined in the increasing array of national documents governing the system, but its essence is compliance with legally prescribed social and economic obligations and performing contractual commitments. Composed of a patchwork of diverse information collection and publicity systems established by various state authorities at different levels of government, the system’s main goal is to improve governance and market order in a country still beset by rampant fraud and counterfeiting.
Under the system, government agencies compile and share across departments, regions, and sectors, and with the public, data on compliance with specified industry or sectoral laws, regulations, and agreements by individuals, companies, social organizations, government departments, and the judiciary. Serious offenders may be placed on blacklists published on an integrated national platform called Credit China and subjected to a range of government-imposed inconveniences and exclusions. These are often enforced by multiple agencies pursuant to joint punishment agreements covering such sectors as taxation, the environment, transportation, e-commerce, food safety, and foreign economic cooperation, as well as failing to carry out court judgments.
These punishments are intended to incentivize legal and regulatory compliance under the often-repeated slogan of “whoever violates the rules somewhere shall be restricted everywhere.” Conversely, “red lists” of the trustworthy are also published and accessed nationally through Credit China.
Yes, I have. Have you read beyond that point? The West distorts the scope and nature of the credit system to ludicrous degrees, nobody claims that there’s no such thing.
It’s besides the point how it is talked about. The Second screenshot literally says “Social credit. We don’t have this at all” and your link very much proves that they do. Therefore propaganda in my eyes.
They very much have a credit score that is not anywhere comparable to the Orwellian depiction in western media, and furthermore the credit system is largely for businesses, not individuals. The western depiction simply does not exist.
The western depiction simply does not exist.
I can and will not argue this point since I lack the proper knowledge on the subject.
We all agree on the fact that a system exists.
From the post:
“Social credit. We don’t have this at all” is a lie. Again, I am not saying anything about how to system works or how it is preceived. I am saying that it exists and the post claimed it does not, nothing else.
That makes it propaganda to me.
TL;DR:
- The post claims that something that exists does not. This is a fact.
- I believe this to be propaganda in some form. This is an opinion.
It’s overwhelmingly clear that you need to do more legwork to prove that that user genuinely thinks there is no credit score, and is not directly responding to the Orwellian version. This is clearly taking a dogmatic reading of one sentence to come up with the absurd claim that Chinese citizens believe that publicly stated policy doesn’t actually exist.
I read the whole article, as it went on to describe more of what has been reported as having a “social credit score”, and gave more details about how it’s administered.
Basically, the headline is “no, it’s not at all what you’ve heard”, and then the article goes on to describe exactly what has been reported in the US. I’m not sure your point about “there’s no credit score that is administered by the Chinese government with a mechanism for blacklisting you and restricting you everywhere” is well-supported by an article that describes a credit score that is administered by the Chinese government that operates blacklists that are enforced under the slogan “whoever violates the rules somewhere shall be restricted everywhere.”
If that’s not actually how it works, then you need to provide a credible source that proves that’s not how it works. Providing a source that reports that yes, that’s exactly how it works doesn’t serve your argument. And “well but the West is totally lying, maaan” isn’t proof; it’s an unverified claim by a random internet commenter.
No, it does not describe “exactly as what the western media depicted.” The west reported utterly nonsense and unfounded ideas of facial recognition and tracking, among other ludicrous ideas out of a necessity to sensationalize.
bro is a fed or just an average american who can’t read
To be clear, it is overwhelmingly Westerners that wish to depict a Chinese man as a yellow bear.
Really? Because all sources that I can find trace the origin to Xi’s visit to the Philippines back in 2017.
https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/2018/11/21/2003704655
It originated as a group picture of Obama as Tigger with Xi as Pooh in 2013, not 2017. Your own sources dispute what you’re saying. What has come from that isn’t a continuation of that trend of group pictures, but a singular insistence of depicting a Chinese man as a yellow bear.
The blocking of Winnie the Pooh might seem like a bizarre move by the Chinese authorities but it is part of a struggle to restrict clever bloggers from getting around their country’s censorship.
First paragraph from your source. China blocks it to prevent bloggers in China from making the comparison (kinda hard for them to block it on Facebook as China does not have control there). That’s also where this meme started.
I’m also fairly certain that Pooh having yellow fur is mostly just coincidental (it’d be a bit surprising if Chinese citizens created a racist meme against another Chinese man). The offensiveness of the meme is much more related to Pooh being quite dim and just general fatshaming, not racism. That’s not to say you can’t use the meme in a racist way, just that the origins seemingly aren’t racist.
In my understanding the racist part of the original meme is the Obama been Tigger(one letter away from the N word)
Really?! Unsurprising, but that makes the entire thing even worse.
Hmm, could be. Although the meme did take off way more with Xi than it ever did with Obama. And other comparisons were made with Eeyore and Piglet, which iirc were mostly due to facial expressions and choice of clothing (it was a shorter lady wearing pink I believe).
But I hadn’t thought of that connection yet. I figured it was mostly physical resemblance (posture and size).
I’m aware that it’s China that takes down the racist caricatures. The meme started more innocently, with Pooh being Xi and Tigger being Obama. This turned into western users overwhelmingly sticking with Xi as Pooh. The origins and what stuck are different entirely in intent and character.
But as far as I know China isn’t taking down Obama-Tigger comparisons. So Chinese netizens are also sticking with the Xi-Pooh comparison (otherwise China wouldn’t bother taking it down anymore), which doesn’t seem to match with what you’re describing as likely intent, nor with who is making the comparisons.
You seem pretty convinced it’s mostly racist westerners using the meme, but do you have anything other than a gut feeling to back this up? Because the actions of the Chinese government seem to suggest it’s mostly a domestic problem to them. And for those Chinese users it seems to have taken off as a way to avoid the censors (which is now ineffective, and has morphed into a point of principle).
I missed that. Thanks. So does that meme from the west outweigh Xi’s entire Philippino welcoming and barrage of memes, prompting the banning of the word Pooh in Chinese media, justify your claim that it’s overwhelmingly Westerners?
“Pooh” is not banned in China. Taking down racist attacks against Xi happend prior to the visit to the Phillipines, read your own articles. Some users used it in the Phillipines to protest Xi because the racist caricatures were taken down, which was a western thing.
You evaded the question with semantics. Is one meme ‘overwhelmingly’ more than a nation of Philippinos?
I didn’t evade anything, you’ve been fundamentally wrong about reality several times. Secondly, it wasn’t “the nation of the Philippines,” it was some users, and the fact that the yellow bear caricature is overwhelmingly western does not mean non-western users don’t exist.
You’re going to massive lengths to defend depicting a chinese man as a yellow bear.
It really is astounding how much every sinophobes source is inevitably just Wikipedia.
It’s too bad the people of China aren’t allowed to edit Wikipedia, and correct the facts, because of their oppressive state.
More and more I see them just sending either a duckduckgo search, or the first few links from that search, which is of course always from anglo-supremacist news sources.
Wikipedia
Can you site a source more credible than a crowd sourced encyclopedia run by Americans
*feds. and the criteria for a credible source for them as they need to be western-aligned media. it’s a complete joke.
Can you provide evidence for that claim?
People are people no matter where they live, which also means you can’t trust any government anywhere. Propaganda is powerful.
The idea of a social credit score has always been hilarious to me, like yo bros we have credit scores over here and they legitimately fuck us over since you need good credit to do alot of things like renting a place to live.
imagine making social media so bad your own citizens actively procure your biggest rival’s networks.
Imagine allowing citizens to be so free that they can go to your biggest rival’s social media to read narratives favouring them, get influenced by rival propaganda, and then shit you on your percieved weak points.
It’s never too late to discard your patriotism to a state that doesn’t give a fuck about you. You don’t owe it your allegiance, be it Burgerland or India or whichever shitty capitalist state.
Patritoism?
I suppose it is easy to be patriotic to a state which hides even publicly known events from its plebs.Try to get opinion of the Chinese on RedNote about Uyguirs and Teinman Square. I’ll wait.
Tiananmen square is one of the most popular places in China, it’d be like saying Times square in new york city. You’re referring to what they call the june 4th incident, and you can absolutely talk about it on chinese social media.
That’s actually a cool website. Thanks.
EDIT : Apparently linked by the other commenter, but your work. Thanks.
Lol, that’s the worst attempts at spelling Tienanmen Square and Uyghurs I’ve seen yet, and I’ve seen a lot.
Thanks for sharing.
This paints “massacre” as retaliation against CIA sponsered armed factions. Looks very much like what happened in Bangladesh recently, but unlike China CIA succeeded in Bangladesh.No doubt the US will keep trying. It’s always working to regime change states that it can’t sufficiently control.
dont the uyghur thing get proven false time and time again?
videos and photos inevitably leak of shit like this but theres nothing credible to support a genocide happening in china… why do people believe this?
How does the US ban on TikTok thatbmakes people switch to rednote now fit this description?
I think there’s a simple desire to move to pastures new. “Use Instagrmam or Youtube Shorts or Snapchat” No, we’ve been there and done that.
Lmao
wow the level of cope in this thread (thankfully not that many tho) arguing over stats - which are probably made up anyway.
some people can’t handle that most humans just wanna be friends regardless of gov politics bs
As a civ player, I know a cultural victory when I see one.
Lol people actually believed that social credit score bullshit?
American here, yes. To be fair I don’t think about China a lot.
Just goes to show you how deeply permeating the Red Scare is. Reminds me of that “exploding helmets” story that was obviously bogus but peddled as though it was true.
That’s one I never even heard of until now! I’m not surprised that the CIA-backed Falun Gong’s Epoch Times covered it: China Develops Helmets for Soldiers With Self-Destruct Button: Report. You can just make up any zany thing about the US’s designated baddies, and people will buy it.
Yep, I remember that one as it came out. Super silly.
You have credit scores in the US?
We have real credit scores in the US that keep people unhoused
Yes, that’s the sad truth. It doesn’t have to be a government program to be a systemic issue.
But… social credit literally is real… There are government legislations on this. It is not a conspiracy theory.
On the other hand Western media definitely has exaggerated and demonized it a lot. The social credit is basically your credit score, but it is more expansive and uses information some might see as encroaching on their personal privacy and freedoms.
The credit score in China is to keep tabs on businesses to prevent corruption and excesses, just basic things the US used to do back in the 1950s, but would now be considered “authoritarian”.
The credit scores in the US are used to prevent regular people from getting housing.
wdym by “basically your credit score”?
Plenty of people also still believe the secret Chinese police stations bullshit.
Never heard of mintpress. Looked it up and ooof. What a record
mintpress
From Wikipedia:
MintPress News supported former Syrian president Bashar al-Assad, and the governments of Russia and Iran.[3][4] It opposes the governments of Israel and Saudi Arabia,[5] and reports geopolitical events from an anti-Western perspective.[6]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MintPress_News
And
Further, they have frequently promoted conspiracy theories and misinformation regarding Covid-19, such as this A DARPA-FUNDED IMPLANTABLE BIOCHIP TO DETECT COVID-19 COULD HIT MARKETS BY 2021.
Uh huh. Looked them up where, MB/FC? Quoting myself:
The first step is to understand the media, which Media Bias/Fact Check and the Ad Fontes Media* are never going to teach you. The only people who are taught it are those who get degrees in marketing, public relations, political science, history, and journalism; and even then only some of them.
The new post-Trump/“post-truth” media literacy curricula won’t teach it to you either, because it was paid for and crafted by the US military-industrial complex: New Media Literacy Standards Aim to Combat ‘Truth Decay’.
This week, the RAND Corporation released a new set of media literacy standards designed to support schools in this task.
The standards are part of RAND’s ongoing project on “truth decay”: a phenomenon that RAND researchers describe as “the diminishing role that facts, data, and analysis play in our political and civic discourse.”
None of it is a secret, though, and it can be learned.
- Noam Chomsky - The 5 Filters of the Mass Media Machine
- Propaganda model
- Edward Bernays
- Walter Lippmann
- Council on Foreign Relations
- Powell Memorandum
- The Trilateral Commission’s report, The Crisis of Democracy
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*I’ve criticized MBFC & Ad Fontes before:
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Yes, people genuinely believe that the social credit exists.
In America we call it the credit score…
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the average Chinese person barely knows just how much surveillance their government is doing on them (it’s a lot) or how much it impacts their daily lives (deeply).
Unlike you, of course. You, the enlightened Westerner, the true free thinker, know so much more than those orientals.
There’s a big difference between the commonly reported western idea of a social credit system, and the actual credit system that exists in China. Chiefly, it is primarily for businesses, not citizens. You’re making an error in attempting to equate the scope.
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First, don’t use that term to describe Chinese people, that has racist connotations.
As for your claim that the entire MO of the PRC’s government is “control for personal gain,” can you elaborate?
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Or skin tone.
So I’m not crazy? I could’ve sworn I looked into it, and it was basically just a credit score where you also get dinged for police interaction or living with someone who committed a crime
That type of system is not really accurate. There is a credit system, but it’s largely for companies and businesses as a way to exert control over shady business practices.
“Criminal record”
Not sure how this shit works in China but it is all about the same at the end of the day.
I mean I feel real stupid reading into it, but up until now, yes
And they believe Uyghur genocide too. They’re fucking brainwashed. They completely lack critical thinking capabilities.
A great way to get people to understand is to insult them. That always works well
Social credit scores were a thing. People were punished for low scores. It only happened in a few cities and it was described as a pilot.
Obviously the pilot got a lot of bad press in and outside China and it is no longer happening
Indeed.
Few things blew my mind even though I’ve been a big fan of Chinese economic and political policy for a while
They actually really like Soviet Culture, the marching soldiers and flags etc. Soviet rock like Kino and the like is very popular!
They’re casually Marxist, its not something they have to fight to learn about so socialism is a casual existence for them. I figured the youth would be “too cool or hip” but doesn’t seem to be the case
They’re very similar as gamers, they really like shooters like battlefield and cs go. I assume their MMOs are different but I’m asking about that
It truly is a massive cultural exchange the likes of which have never been seen before. I’m trying to find out if they grew up on the same games, Morrowind Deus Ex Thief Ultima Online D&D etc
