• tetris11@lemmy.ml
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      1 month ago

      I think the book Sapiens makes the point that wheat has trained us into cultivating it for selfish needs.

      (Except that it’s wheat, and that we annihilated 99% of its brethren to pick out the one that we liked so we could effectively clone it. But yes, we are the slaves…)

      • jballs@sh.itjust.works
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        1 month ago

        Sapiens and Homo Deus are both such good books. Lots of little anecdotes like that we’re just so fascinating.

  • VindictiveJudge@lemmy.world
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    1 month ago

    The best bit about the mint and chocolate thing is that chocolate is also poison, so we spice up our poison with more poison.

  • Reggie@discuss.tchncs.de
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    1 month ago

    All valid Points. But also, humans: i will care for this plant and create huge fields where you can live prosper and in peace. We kill everything who comes near you and try to harm you. And we will ensure you will live forever. You dont need birds who shit your seeds out.

    Those plants domesticared us!

  • cybervseas@lemmy.world
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    1 month ago

    Basically humans will have sex with you, eat you, or make you a pet.

    Sometimes more than one.

  • Phineaz@feddit.org
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    1 month ago

    Tbf, this has proven to be extremely effective: Just think of how many tobacco or chili plants are grown today! Domestication really is a two-way-street

  • Olgratin_Magmatoe@lemmy.world
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    1 month ago

    Would aliens actually be weirded out by this quality of humans?

    I feel like any sufficiently intelligent species living on a planet will have some degree of biodiversity on said planet. And the chances of something being made to be a poison/deterrent for creatures other than the intelligent species is probably a large one, because it’s pretty hard for plants and animals to make a poison/deterrent that kills everything without also killing itself. So if there is a gap for itself, there is a gap for other life to coexist with the toxin. And that’s before accounting for the fact that something can be safe at low levels, provide benefits/stimulation/good feels at low levels, and toxic at high levels.

    So I’d think it would be pretty natural for intelligent life to consume things that are harmful to huge swaths of other creatures.

    • Tlaloc_Temporal@lemmy.ca
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      1 month ago

      It is kinda weird that humans are so resilient to so many things though. It’s part of being scavenging omnivores, but alients with a more specialized diet might be weirded out.

      • P00ptart@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        Dogs can eat rotting meat and lick unwashed balls and ass but die from fucking grapes. 🤷🏼‍♂️

              • davidagain@lemmy.world
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                1 month ago

                Dude, I don’t mean to boast, but honestly, I think my dick is just WAY too big. Like, I would DESTROY that grape instantly if I tried. It’s not just a trick of the camera angle, it just is that big. Honestly, I don’t even need to get out a measuring tape to tell you that even with a massive grape, it’s just not going to fit.

                • Olgratin_Magmatoe@lemmy.world
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                  1 month ago

                  You’re not being creative enough. You could have a bowl/cup of grapes, and use that. Or maybe alternatively you could blend/mash them up, let them dry out a bit to stiffen up, then use that.

                • davidagain@lemmy.world
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                  1 month ago

                  Sounds painful. Like gallstones, but backwards. On the plus side, probably less scratchy. On the minus side, maybe more citric acid.

              • davidagain@lemmy.world
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                1 month ago

                The grapes? I can never tell when a grape wants some action. My whole life, I’ve missed every single signal. Well, that, or the grapes just don’t find me attractive, like, EVER.

              • davidagain@lemmy.world
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                1 month ago

                I just can’t see it ever happening.

                I don’t mean any disrespect, and I don’t want to kink shame, but that kinda thing is just not my bag, baby.

      • Olgratin_Magmatoe@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        Potentially. But think of it this way, there are somewhere around 400,000 plant species out there.

        https://news.mongabay.com/2016/05/many-plants-world-scientists-may-now-answer/

        Based on this list, something on the order of like 99.5% of plants are either not safe, or not useful/beneficial. If other species on our planet share a similar rate without complete overlap, then it’s practically a guarantee that there will be thousands of plants that are safe and useful for us but not for other species. That doesn’t feel particularly strange or unlikely. So even with a specialized diet, I don’t think the numbers would be much different.

        It also could be the case that being scavenging omnivores is a strong precursor to becoming intelligent. If your species is on the rise in terms of intelligence, you’re probably using that to expand your food sources wide and far.

        • Tlaloc_Temporal@lemmy.ca
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          1 month ago

          That’s based on species though, so it would overrepresent unlikely encounters. I can go eat pine bark or grass on any continent and probably be A-OK.

          I do wonder how that data compares with other mammals though. Is it just average, or is it significantly higher?

          • Olgratin_Magmatoe@lemmy.world
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            1 month ago

            That’s based on species though, so it would overrepresent unlikely encounters.

            That is fair, but also consider that an intelligent species isn’t going to be limited by chance encounters. I regularly eat bananas, but I don’t live in India. I regularly eat pineapples, but I don’t live in Costa Rica. Very little of my diet is comprised of food that is native to my area. As an intelligent species, we farm food en masse, ship it around the world, and plant things outside of their natural habitat.

            I do wonder how that data compares with other mammals though. Is it just average, or is it significantly higher?

            Purely speculating, I’d wager slightly above average as a result of the thing I said about omnivores being a precursor to becoming intelligent.

            • Tlaloc_Temporal@lemmy.ca
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              1 month ago

              an intelligent species isn’t going to be limited by chance encounters.

              That’s actually a fantastic point, we change our environment to be more suitable to ourselves, including cultivating unique yet safe species. I’ve never heard of a poison dart frog farm, nor a field of death caps.

      • 1rre@discuss.tchncs.de
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        1 month ago

        For mammals we are, sure, but there’s loads of things that’d kill humans that other animals chow down on perfectly happily, especially when it comes to microorganisms, mushrooms and the rotting things they’re often found in/around

        I don’t think scavenging is right also given that humans used to mainly pick fresh fruits and persistence hunt, both of which are very fresh food which is not overlooked or left by others… Given the fact we picked fresh fruits and hunted for fresh meat, being resistant to berry and fruit based poisons was more important than microorganism based ones, so it makes a lot of sense that so many of the non-intoxicating poisons we like are from fruits and berries

        • Tlaloc_Temporal@lemmy.ca
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          1 month ago

          Scavenging carcasses and chasing predators away from a kill is definitely a behavior we had in the past. Particularly during droughts and famines, scavenging would be an important food source on the Saharan scrubland. IIRC, this would’ve been before persistence hunting was a thing, back in the H.erectus days, maybe even as far back as some Australopiths.

          • CrazyLikeGollum@lemmy.world
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            1 month ago

            We would also scavenge fallen fruits and berries that were at least partially decayed. It’s most likely how we discovered the intoxicating effects of alcohol.

      • toynbee@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        I know it’s just a typo, but the image “alients” conjured in my head is pretty funny. I have less than zero artistic talent or I’d share it with you all. Hopefully the mental image is enough.

    • whotookkarl@lemmy.world
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      1 month ago

      If we were the aliens and came across two worlds inhabited by intelligent life I would probably be more weirded out by the one where nobody uses any mind altering substance like caffeine that are poisonous to other animals.

  • loaExMachina@sh.itjust.works
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    1 month ago

    Sometimes, when a fruit or seed isn’t toxic enough for our taste, we make it liquid then make it ferment or age until some of its sugar turns into the deliciously neurotoxic ethanol.

  • Etterra@lemmy.world
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    1 month ago

    Don’t forget…

    Yeast: oh man I love sugars so much, I just wish they didn’t make me shit so bad.

    Humans: dude this stuff is fucking awesome!

    • psud@aussie.zone
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      Yeast in sugar is going: I’ll just convert this to poison (ethanol) to keep everything away, then whenever I’m hungry I’ll break that poison into acid

      Humans: hold my… Wait a minute let’s make beer!

      Parrots: tasty tasty poison

      Fruit flies: bonanza!

      • DillyDaily@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        And if my yeasty poison goes bad, I’ll just pour it over some poisonous leaves, I love salad.

        Don’t forget to season it with minerals you chipped off a rock in a dried out lake bed.

        • Gloomy@mander.xyz
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          1 month ago

          Chickens are the most numerous bird on the planet

          And live their lives in fucking misery and suffering, at least most of em.

          • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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            1 month ago

            But they keep reproducing, which is really all that it takes to make a successful species. It’s really not about suffering when it comes to evolution. Alleles don’t care whether or not suffering is involved.

            I’m not advocating chicken farming, I’m just saying that in evolutionary terms, chickens are one of the most successful species on the planet.

            • Gloomy@mander.xyz
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              1 month ago

              I disagree.

              Evolution is not so much a numbers game. Otherwise Bacteria, Ants, Viruses and the like would have to be crowned winners. So the point op brings up is mute moot.

              The point you add, that they keep reproducing, is also not relevant in evelotionary terms. The short amount of time that we have domesticated chickens, let a side the very resent industalisation of animal farming (it started in the 1950s ish), is just not relevante in evelotionary terms.

              I’d say what makes a successfull species is resilience. 99 % of all species have gone extinct. The “winners” of evelotion are, in my opinion, those species that have lasted the longest. And in that regard, chicken ain’t looking to good. They are highly dependent upon humans. Most industrial chickens are genetic aborninatons, bred for beeing fat, fast growing, egg laying machines to the point where their own bones brake because they lack calcium. I’d argue that chickens in their current form would not last long in “the wild”. Hence once humans are gone their is a high chance chickens will follow.

              • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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                1 month ago

                Otherwise Bacteria, Ants, Viruses and the like would have to be crowned winners.

                They are. And you mean ‘moot.’

                Also, you don’t know what evolution is. It’s a change in allele frequency over time. All that is needed for that is continued reproduction.

    • MonkderVierte@lemmy.ml
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      1 month ago

      Doubtful. Look what will happen with our bred plants and animals, if humans aren’t around anymore.

  • RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world
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    TBF, life’s objective is to reproduce and keep its genetic materials continuing on. Even if humans propagate and consume said plant because they find it desirable, that is still a success for the plant. So even if it has toxic caffeine or fiery capsaicin to deter some pests and humans find it enjoyable, the plant wins.

  • ArbitraryValue@sh.itjust.works
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    1 month ago

    Caffeine is poisonous to us too, so I think it’s more accurate to say that humans enjoy the side effects of that particular neurotoxin. It’s generally not possible for someone healthy to drink enough coffee to die, but they sell pure caffeine (for research) and even seemingly small amounts of that will kill a person.

    • BarrelAgedBoredom@lemm.ee
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      1 month ago

      You can buy 200mg pure anhydrous caffeine pills at Walmart for like $5. It’s abundant and as safe as coffee if you don’t go nuts. The max daily recommended dose is 400mg, anything past that could cause harm

      • ArbitraryValue@sh.itjust.works
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        1 month ago

        What I had in mind is more like this 25kg bucket. That’s enough to kill about 2,000 people, which is actually a lot fewer people than I would have guessed before I looked up the LD50.

        I’ve never actually seen caffeine in a bucket myself, but I worked in a lab once that had a big plastic jar of it.

          • ArbitraryValue@sh.itjust.works
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            1 month ago

            What I read was that it’s about 200mg per kg, so for a 70kg human that works out to 14 grams. That actually sounds remarkably high (14 grams is a lot). Did I mess up somewhere?

            • Liz@midwest.social
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              I didn’t bother to look it up, that was just my random vague understanding. I’d trust your numbers over mine.

  • Colour_me_triggered@lemm.ee
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    People who have accidentally eaten death cap mushrooms (amanita phalloides for the autists out there) say that it’s fucking delicious (before their liver shuts down). Rabbits can eat them without problems. So if we use rabbit genes, we can crispr cas 9 our way to a good meal.