• ornery_chemist@mander.xyz
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    Counterpoint: advisor said no.

    “Just use Word, everyone else does. I have never heard of this latex thing, so must be just some trendy useless overengineered software that does Word’s job but worse. Word can track changes just fine, and you can leave comments.” proceeds to strikethrough, highlight, and inline comment everything instead of using either of those features “I want to read what you wrote, not fight technology” proceeds to email you three separate times after forgetting to attach v28 about how a graphic looks wrong because Word ate it

    • pufferfisherpowder@lemmy.world
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      While correct in the sense of word and versioning via mail being a nightmare, I really don’t think you can expect anyone to learn latex just so they can comment in your document. I would have offered to send a pdf. Shoot me.

      • Zagorath@aussie.zone
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        1 month ago

        I would have offered to send a pdf

        I would have never considered doing anything but sending a PDF. Even if they do know LaTeX. Unless they’re offering to help edit the code for me, what good is it? It’s objectively harder to read than the formatted PDF.

        That said, marking up a PDF is much more difficult and does require more specialised software and know-how than editing plain text or even editing a Word document. So there are some advantages to it.

        • ornery_chemist@mander.xyz
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          This is exactly it. My advisor wanted a word doc to edit, not a PDF. I wasn’t quite snooty enough to think that he should learn latex. Though, if he ever took the time to learn (what time?), I’m sure the writing process would be unbearable for other reasons not entirely related.

        • PlexSheep@infosec.pub
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          1 month ago

          Adding comments to PDFs is actually very easy, is it not? Even that Adobe PDF crapware can do it, you don’t even need a good pdf reader (like Okular from KDE).

        • Flipper@feddit.de
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          1 month ago

          With the Todo package you can easily make online comments what needs to change.

    • Randelung@lemmy.world
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      1 month ago

      you can still use word with git. it’s versioning first, diffing and merging only where possible. since you probably won’t branch you won’t need the latter, though.

      • ornery_chemist@mander.xyz
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        1 month ago

        Preaching to the choir. “But Box already supports ‘versioning’, why use a confusing hacker tool instead?”

          • ornery_chemist@mander.xyz
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            1 month ago

            A fine assumption given what I wrote. Unfortunately, we did both depending on what he felt like at the time. Yes, for the same doc.

      • droans@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        Missing diffs is a problem, though.

        I don’t get how Microsoft owns GitHub yet hasn’t figured out any way to actually create a spec that would be git compatible for Excel, Word, and PowerPoint files yet.

    • Fushuan [he/him]@lemm.ee
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      1 month ago

      I’m going to send you a pdf, you van email me back with the notes or comments in the PDF itself, whatever souts your fancy, and I’ll keep those notes and send you a new PDF with them.

      I did this and I had no issues with any of the thesises I have submitted in my bachelors or masters.

      First year calculus teacher, thank you SO much for forcing us to write submissions in latex.

      Also, overleaf is a thing, this is not like my 1st year of uni, this 11 years later or so. If your fucking professor never heard of latex they are just bad at academia and shouldn’t be teaching honestly. It’s not just about the field knowledge.

      • Hagdos@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        I’m going to send you a pdf, you van email me back with the notes or comments in the PDF itself, whatever souts your fancy, and I’ll keep those notes and send you a new PDF with them.

        I do this, but from Word.

        I learned Latex for my master thesis. Never used it again afterwards, except for my resumé.

  • MudMan@fedia.io
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    The weird part is that most modern office software has version control built right in.

    And I still do this with all my files anyway.

    • Otter@lemmy.ca
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      I’ve had the built in version control do unexpected things, so I play it safe and create named backup files. I usually end up using that one file, but I’ve been saved on occasion

    • BearOfaTime@lemm.ee
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      1 month ago

      Use date/time in your file name,using GMT:

      Metrics of Sales 2024-05-22_14-29.docx

      Very unlikely to have 2 docs with the same down-to-the-minute time stamp in the name.

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        1 month ago

        If you think this process involves enough mindpower to check the time, let alone figure out where the dashes are in whatever language keyboard setup I’m using at the time, you are wildly overestimating how much care goes into doing this.

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            1 month ago

            I have an AutoHotkey script that drops the current date in ISO8601. I don’t need timestamps often, so date is sufficient. I like to have manual control of file names since I very frequently do not want files renamed.

            Cute related story: I taught my 6 y.o. son this macro so he can save his Krita art with the date (and then some keyboard spam ending in “poop”, usually). The macro shortcut I set is `T so he now calls the date “ticky tee”. Any set of numbers with dashes is a “ticky tee” to him, and if AutoHotkey is closed he runs to get me because “ticky tee isn’t working, Daddy!”

            • BearOfaTime@lemm.ee
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              Dammit, why have I never thought to use AHK for this? I already use the custom context menu script someone developed about 15 years ago (Favorite Folders? It’s on the AHK/AutoIT forum) , I can just add it to that.

              AHK/AutoIT are game changers. I feel naked on a machine without it, I’m so used to Ctrl-Middle -click to get to all sorts of things… Folders, scripts, tools, automations (like your date idea), etc.

              Ticky-tee! Hahahaha, love it!

        • BearOfaTime@lemm.ee
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          1 month ago

          Well, if you can’t be bothered to ensure file names mean something, then you get to enjoy the results.

          In the Real World®, sometimes files get shared and traded around, and conversations happen about them, and you need to be able to quickly verify you’re looking at the same doc.

          We can’t all be connected to the same version control system.

          • MudMan@fedia.io
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            1 month ago

            Well, if you can’t be bothered to ensure file names mean something, then you get to enjoy the results.

            Now you’re getting it.

      • mortrek@lemmy.ml
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        1 month ago

        I generally do this on my NAS, combined with nightly and bi-weekly backups, plus a 6-mo safety backup, to a backup drive. Also, basic off-site nightly backups for important stuff. If I worked on really important stuff that required lots of versioning, though, I’d probably go with a versioning system instead of inserting the date.

    • v_krishna@lemmy.ml
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      1 month ago

      Haha my first thought seeing this meme is “do you want to start writing LaTeX by hand? Because this is how you start…”

    • bl_r@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      1 month ago

      I wrote mine in LaTeX, highly recommend.

      I mean, I spent years writing LaTeX for school so it was real simple and mindless. YMMV

    • vortic@lemmy.world
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      1 month ago

      I do this using overleaf. It’s been much easier to maintain and update since switching.

    • TrickDacy@lemmy.world
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      1 month ago

      I have enjoyed switching mine to HTML format which I then generate a PDF from. The only downside is that different browsers can render stuff slightly different, but that’s normally fixable with one line css change. And it’s not like I need to update my resume constantly on different machines.

      • ulterno@lemmy.kde.social
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        I was on Word, then LibreOffice Writer.
        Now thinking of making it a markdown source, with CSS styling to get an HTML based PDF. This way, the same source can be used on a webpage with different generation code.

        This seems to me, to be simpler than LATEX, but still good enough for a resume.

        • justme@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          1 month ago

          There is a standard called json-resume with a lot of generators for html and pdf or react-resume which is more like a CMS (not entirely sure about spelling, to lazy to search for it now)

          • justme@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            But I need to add that I never made it work for me because they are not really good for scientific CVs

          • ulterno@lemmy.kde.social
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            1 month ago

            Interesting, but not appealing to me.
            I have already been enchanted by discount and mesmerised by kramdown.

          • ulterno@lemmy.kde.social
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            kramdown and discount are 2 fun little tools.

            • kramdown is more fully featured and is a Ruby Gem.
            • discount is made in C and is more suitable if you are using it in an on-the-fly render process (∵ lesser CPU cycles), but it has lesser functionality features.
      • drre@feddit.de
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        1 month ago

        and then there are fucking PIs insisting on word files who never heard of tracked charges let alone of file naming conventions.

        • Zagorath@aussie.zone
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          I dunno what a PI is, but my honours thesis supervisor was the person who first introduced me to TeX. And gods, I wish I had known about it earlier in uni, or even back in high school. It is so useful when writing any sort of papers with sections and diagrams and bibliography.

          • Hundun@beehaw.org
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            1 month ago

            Check out Typst (a newer TeX-like layout engine) if you have time, I’m interested in your opinion. I find it a bit simpler to use than TeX.

            • Zagorath@aussie.zone
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              1 month ago

              Un(?)fortunately I don’t have much cause these days for either TeX or some equivalent to it. Anything I’m writing today is simple enough that it doesn’t need anything more sophisticated than markdown for formatting.

        • prashanthvsdvn@lemmy.world
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          1 month ago

          Then start writing in Markdown. Markdown is easier in syntax, supports LaTeX equations, has metadata and is in plain text so you can use git. And the killer feature is you can use pandoc to convert the markdown file into word, pptx, LaTeX pdfs, html etc. you can also setup a make file that runs pandoc when you ask like this

          • drre@feddit.de
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            yeah this is what i used for some projects, i.e. rmarkdown which also integrates the statistics part

    • steventhedev@lemmy.world
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      .gitattributes can invoke Word on windows to diff versions, and there are plenty of open source scripts that can do it if you don’t have a copy of Word (or Windows) lying around.

      But Word is like shit for papers. Use LaTeX instead.

    • Hundun@beehaw.org
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      Why on Earth would you curse yourself with MS Office anyway, especially if writing docs is your professional responsibility?

      Why not use Git+Markdown+Pandoc, have your copy, data and layout separate?

      I understand that a lot of istitutions/companies impose stylistic/technical requirements for docs and publications, - still doesn’t mean you gotta stay married to the worst tooling.

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    Had to write a paper in college with 100 citations.

    We used zotero for citation management, and it would dump a bibtex file on demand.

    The paper was written in markdown, stored in git, and rendered through pandoc. We would cite a paper with parentheses and something resembling an id, like (lewis).

    We gave pandoc a “citation style definition”, and it took care of everything. Every citation was perfectly formatted. The bibliography was perfectly formatted. Inline references were perfect. Numbering was perfect. All the metadata was ripped from pdfs automatically. It was downright magical.

    • TheChargedCreeper864@lemmy.ml
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      This is what I (a non coder who only knows git “download the Yuzu repo before they nuke it” and git “give me all the updates”) want to do when I get to write a paper. How much git did you have to learn to do this?

      • prashanthvsdvn@lemmy.world
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        This is just basic make changes to file, git add and commit workflow. Other features of git like branching can be leveraged for greater control but are optional. What makes it magical is 3 seperate systems working together with such symphony namely git, Zotero and pandoc. Zotero is citation manager that you can use store scientific articles, papers, thesis etc. and it can produce a bibliography file and pandoc can reference those along with the citations in the make file to create a clean typesetted Word or LaTeX pdf with precise numbering, table of contents, citations and bibliography with correct format without you needing to edit anything.

      • sandalbucket@lemmy.world
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        I absolutely love R markdown! Being able to iterate on your analysis and report at the same time is fantastic

    • hinterlufer@lemmy.world
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      yep, markdown is a great alternative to LaTeX if you don’t need fancy layouts or anything special

      • sandalbucket@lemmy.world
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        Markdown + pandoc means it goes through an intermediary latex template on the way to pdf land - which means your markdown can be a bastardized mix of markdown, html, latex commands, and sometimes more ;)

    • lud@lemm.ee
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      I kinda want to learn LaTeX but I rarely write anything and I hate doing it so won’t have much use for it. It’s pretty neat though.

      I also saw that there was a way to use LaTex to generate PowerPoint which seems extremely useful because PowerPoint is extremely annoying to use.

  • qjkxbmwvz@startrek.website
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    1 month ago

    I also added a Makefile for mine (LaTeX), and it would add the commit hash to the front page (with an asterisk if the repository had uncommitted changes).

    So, if I gave a draft to someone and got feedback, I’d know exactly which revision it was.

      • qjkxbmwvz@startrek.website
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        1 month ago

        Sure thing. This also includes the beamer bit which I used for my defense. It’s all pretty hacky but hope it’s useful!

        #
        # Errors aren't handled gracefully (tex doesn't write to stderr, it seems)
        # If you encounter errors, use "make verbose"
        #
        # For small changes (probably those without references), use "make quick"
        #
        # Thanks to https://gist.github.com/Miliox/4035649 for dependency outline
        
        TEX = pdflatex
        BTEX = biber
        MAKE = make -s
        TEXFLAGS = -halt-on-error
        # $(MAIN).log is dumb if we have multiple targets!
        SILENT = > /dev/null || cat $(MAIN).log
        SILENT_NOER = 2>/dev/null 1>/dev/null
        EDITOR = vim -p
        PDFVIEW = evince
        MAIN = main
        PRES = presentation
        ALL = $(MAIN).pdf
        RECURS = media/ manuscripts/
        VERSION := $(shell git rev-parse --short HEAD | cut -c 1-4)$(shell git diff-index --quiet HEAD && (echo -n ' ';git log -1 --format=[%cd]) || (echo -n '* '; date -u '+[%c]'))
        
        all: recurs $(ALL)
        pres: $(PRES).pdf
        scratch: scratch.pdf
        
        scratch.pdf: scratch.tex
        	@echo "TEX	(final)	$<"
        	@$(TEX) $(TEXFLAGS) $< $(SILENT)
        
        verbose: SILENT = ''
        verbose: $(ALL)
        
        recurs: $(RECURS)
        	@$(foreach DIR, $(RECURS), \
        		echo "MAKE	(CD)	$(CURDIR)/$(DIR)"; \
        		$(MAKE) -C $(DIR) $(MAKECMDGOALS);)
        	@echo "MAKE	(CD)	./"
        
        clean:
        	@echo "SH	(RM)	Not recursing; 'make allclean' to clear generated files."
        	@rm -f *.aux *.log *.out *.pdf *.bbl *.blg *.toc *.lof *.lot *.bcf *.run.xml
        
        allclean: recurs
        	@echo "SH	(RM)	A clean directory is a happy directory"
        	@rm -f *.aux *.log *.out *.pdf *.bbl *.blg *.toc *.lof *.lot *.bcf *.run.xml
        version:
        	@echo "SH      (ver) $(VERSION)"
        	@echo $(VERSION) > VERSION.tex
        
        nixpages: main.pdf
        	@echo "PDF     (pdftk)"
        	@pdftk main.pdf cat 1 4-end output final.pdf
        
        quick: $(MAIN).tex version
        	@echo "TEX	(final)	$<"
        	@$(TEX) $(TEXFLAGS) $< $(SILENT)
        
        $(MAIN).pdf: $(MAIN).tex $(MAIN).bbl all.tex tex/abstract.tex tex/intro.tex tex/appendix.tex tex/some_section.tex tex/some_other_section.tex
        	@echo "TEX	(draft)	$<"
        	@$(TEX) $(TEXFLAGS) --draftmode  $< $(SILENT)
        	@echo "TEX	(final)	$<"
        	@$(TEX) $(TEXFLAGS) $< $(SILENT)
        
        $(MAIN).bbl: $(MAIN).aux
        	@echo "BIB	(bib)	$(MAIN)"
        	@$(BTEX) $(MAIN) > /dev/null
        	
        $(MAIN).aux: $(MAIN).tex $(MAIN).bib version
        	@echo "TEX	(draft)	$<"
        	@$(TEX) $(TEXFLAGS) --draftmode  $< $(SILENT)
        
        $(PRES).pdf: $(PRES).tex $(PRES).bbl tex/beamer*.tex tex/slides/*.tex
        	@echo "TEX	(draft)	$<"
        	@$(TEX) $(TEXFLAGS) --draftmode  $< $(SILENT)
        	@echo "TEX	(final)	$<"
        	@$(TEX) $(TEXFLAGS) $< $(SILENT)
        $(PRES).bbl: $(PRES).aux
        	@echo "BIB	(bib)	$(PRES)"
        	@$(BTEX) $(PRES) > /dev/null
        $(PRES).aux: $(PRES).tex $(MAIN).bib
        	@echo "TEX	(draft)	$<"
        	@$(TEX) $(TEXFLAGS) --draftmode  $< $(SILENT)
        
        edit:
        	@echo "EDIT	(fork)	$(EDITOR)"
        	@$(EDITOR) ./tex/*.tex *.tex
        
        view:
        	@echo "VIEW	(fork)	$(PDFVIEW)"
        	@$(PDFVIEW) $(ALL) $(SILENT_NOER) &
        
        • qjkxbmwvz@startrek.website
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          1 month ago

          I also had some Makefiles in other directories, e.g., for my media/ I had:

          MAKE = make -s
          RECURS = svgs/
          
          recurs: $(RECURS)
                  @$(foreach DIR, $(RECURS), \
                          echo "MAKE      (CD)    $(CURDIR)/$(DIR)"; \
                          $(MAKE) -C $(DIR) $(MAKECMDGOALS);)
                  @echo "MAKE     (CD)    $(CURDIR)/"
          
          all: recurs
          
          clean:
          
          allclean: recurs clean
          

          and for media/svgs/:

          SVG_FILES := $(wildcard *.svg)
          PDFDIR := ./
          PDF_FILES := $(patsubst %.svg,$(PDFDIR)/%.pdf,$(SVG_FILES))
          
          all: $(PDF_FILES)
          
          clean:
                  @rm -f $(PDF_FILES)
                  @echo "SH       (RM)    Tidying up derived PDFs"
          
          allclean: clean
          
          $(PDFDIR)/%.pdf: %.svg
                  @inkscape -T --export-pdf=$@ $<
                  @echo "INK      (PDF)   $<"
          
          
      • qjkxbmwvz@startrek.website
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        1 month ago

        Makefile in other comments. You’ll need something like this on the title page (this assumes you use my Makefile which puts the version in VERSION.tex [that’s the literal name of the file, not a placeholder]):

        {\bf{\color{red}DOCUMENT REVISION:}} {\color{blue}\input{VERSION}}

  • Waterdoc@lemmy.ca
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    1 month ago

    I wrote about half of my thesis in R Markdown using Git to backup my work. It’s fantastic because you can have your plots and statistics integrated directly into your paper and formatting in Markdown is much easier than straight up latex.

  • SeattleRain@lemmy.world
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    What’s a good way to learn about Latex and Git. I’ve tried learning on my own but it’s very overwhelming.

        • A_Chilean_Cyborg@feddit.cl
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          \documentclass{article}
          \usepackage{soul}
          \begin{document}
          I'm 19 and I know how to use \LaTeX, \LaTeX is more used in academia, they taught me \LaTeX in Uni, but a lot of other people just won't ever heard of it because is rare to find in other places, most technical degrees and even a lot of uni ones won't use it \st{even if it's vastly superior to word}.
          
          \huge \LaTeX rules
          \end{document}
          
          
          • PlexSheep@infosec.pub
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            Same except that I taught myself. Written two essays for uni already with it and knew from the start that I wouldn’t touch word if I didn’t absolutely need it.

            Latex is confusing, the errors are often even less clear than Python or Java tracebacks, some packages have weird API or don’t work together, and I had to make a build script to work with it, but besides that, I have a good language and environment now to create pretty good PDFs with, including VCS with git and not having to use an editor that is not neovim.

            If you want to look deeper, there are a few more typesetting languages, some with more modern syntax. Markdown is surely the easiest, but not quite as powerful.

            Btw, is soul a real package?

            • A_Chilean_Cyborg@feddit.cl
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              1 month ago

              Yes, the \LaTeX code I wrote is 100% compilable.

              I also learned most \LaTeX myself, school just taught me the basic sintaxis, but is widely used amongst students and academics.

          • the_third@feddit.de
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            1 month ago

            I’m in that that as well. I’m my age™ everybody wrote their bachelor and master thesis in LaTeX 🤷

            • dependencyinjection@discuss.tchncs.de
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              1 month ago

              I become a software developer later in life and never had the privilege to go to university, so sometimes I’m out of the loop on older tech.

              How did Latex compare to modern Git?

              • DerGottesknecht@feddit.de
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                1 month ago

                Latex is no versioning tool but a textsetting language. It outputs perfectly formatted Documents after building and takes care of aranging images, quotes and all the tedious stuff so after setting up your template you only have to care about content. It works well with git.

                Not like word where adding an image fucks the whole formatting.

            • howrar@lemmy.ca
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              1 month ago

              Everyone still uses LaTeX for CS/Math at my school. It’s not an age thing. Just different circles. I don’t think anything similar even comes close to LaTeX yet.

      • SeattleRain@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        Well in this thread people were saying you can set up your own local git repository? What’s a newbie friendly way of doing that. I’ve watched videos and understand that git version control system but I can’t quite seem to grasp more than that.

        • PlexSheep@infosec.pub
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          1 month ago

          You can just create a local repo with git init, and then never push to a (non existent) remote repository. Git is decentralized, meaning that you always have a functional and complete repo when you’re working with it.

          Depending on your tooling, you probably have a GUI for git if you’re a noob, which can usually “initialize a git repo” for you. I use the cli/lagygit tui, so I can’t help with that.

    • captainlezbian@lemmy.world
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      1 month ago

      I learned latex by doing my engineering homework in it. I quit using latex because I kept doing my engineering homework in it and it turns out it sucks to do

      • PlexSheep@infosec.pub
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        1 month ago

        I’m doing my math homework with latex this semester, I’m probably slower but it looks good and is more maintainable.

        • captainlezbian@lemmy.world
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          1 month ago

          The issue I had was if it was big enough to need maintainability it was a group project and that meant Google docs or it was math and that meant scrawled on paper. Or technical writing which is the prof that told us to try latex in the first place but I was too busy that semester to learn it

            • captainlezbian@lemmy.world
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              1 month ago

              Fair, but this was 10 years ago, we were engineers, and it was hard enough explaining the work I did and the work I needed other people to do to them in a way these people understood.

              Also I can’t do math on computers. Like arithmetic sure, but real math, that requires actually writing it down. Idk that’s probably my old lady trait these days

              • areyouevenreal@lemm.ee
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                1 month ago

                Presumably you do the work on paper and then type it up. I doubt professors would accept paper work nowadays.

  • justme@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    1 month ago

    I recently read a tutorial titled: “how to annoy your collaborators: a git CI pipeline for LaTeX” ;)

  • The Bard in Green@lemmy.starlightkel.xyz
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    1 month ago

    I encountered an engineering firm that did this. I wanted to do it too.

    The company I worked for at the time (said engineering firm was doing subcontracting for us) was full of older business people who could never in a million years have wrapped their heads around the idea.

    • qjkxbmwvz@startrek.website
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      1 month ago

      It’s not ideal, but for a thesis — which ideally has an end date after which it won’t be used — it’s not a huge problem I’d argue.

      • ryannathans@aussie.zone
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        1 month ago

        They are generally large, uncompressable and replaced instead of updated like text files. All files stay in the repo history forever, they make repos big and slow compared to text files with no advantages provided (e.g. as you said, diffing etc is useless).

        If a binary file needs to be stored in git, it’s usually more appropriate to use git LFS for that file. Git LFS stores the binary outside of the repo in the same way that database engines store binary outside of the respective table.

        In this case, it would be much smarter to use version control on the text in the document, not tte binary file, which is a feature of essentially every document writer program.

  • model_tar_gz@lemmy.world
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    1 month ago
    git checkout -b final_version_revised2_REALLYFINALTHISTIME
    
    git commit -am “holy fuck I hope this really is the last edit” 
    
    git push
    
    • oce 🐆@jlai.lu
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      1 month ago

      Git is a tool that makes it convenient and lightweight to keep past snapshots of a directory of text files (called a repository) and compare them. It also makes it easy to have multiple people work in parallel on the content of the directory, see the differences and merge everything into a common version. It is essential in programming, it’s called versioning or version control.
      Although it is not easy to access for non programmers because it’s based on slightly obscure command lines. So it’s a bit of an over-engineering to use it for a single file edited by a single person. Especially because you can now put those on the cloud and have some form of version control that allows to easily compare and go back to previous versions graphically.
      It may be worth it if it’s a long document that you work upon for a long time, such as a PhD thesis.

    • GiveOver@feddit.uk
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      1 month ago

      Git tracks changes for a folder full of code (aka “repo”) between saves (called “commits”) so you can revert back to previous versions. It’s intended for software but there’s nothing stopping you from using it for documents