• AIhasUse@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      4 months ago

      Seriously, polls mean nothing. If you want to know what people actually think, then look at the money. Betting odds everywhere still have trump destroying her. That’s what people actually think.

        • Windex007@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          edit-2
          4 months ago

          *That’s what people who’s entire profession is establishing likelihood of outcomes think.

          Oddsmakers are often wrong, but over the long term, they’re more often right, it’s the entire basis of how they make money.

          Polls are just polls. Oddsmakers literally are putting thier money where their mouth is. If you’re confident they’re wrong, take the bet. They WANT you to.

          Edit: after reading the great responses, I think I’m sorely underestimating the volume of bets and how keeping both sides betting against eachother in this case is the strongest factor in the current odds.

          • enkers@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            edit-2
            4 months ago

            I don’t think that’s how that works.

            If people predominantly bet for one side, the odds have to lower so the house still wins in either case. Basically, there has to be enough taken in on all other options to cover the payout of any winning option.

            If there’s no selection bias in betting skill level of the players, then the betting odds should roughly reflect the actual probability. But if one side’s bet has no basis in reality, then the odds can get very skewed.

            And in those cases, it’s not the oddsmakers that are wrong, it’s the betters. The house always wins.

            • tiramichu@lemm.ee
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              4 months ago

              Exactly.

              In a horse race, punters tend to spread bets across horses with no bias or favouritism - they place the bet because they want to make money, not because they are invested in the outcome.

              In a political race, people bet for one team because they are ideologically aligned and want to show support.

              If Republicans are much more likely than Democrats to gamble and place bets on their candidate, this creates market pressure and the odds for a Republican win will increase (I.e. get more likely) as a result of that.

      • tiramichu@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        edit-2
        4 months ago

        Betting odds are influenced by other factors beyond the underlying probability, including behaviour of betters and where bets are placed.

        Take horse racing. If a horse was given a 40% chance to win but lots of people start piling money on that horse rather than any others, this creates unbalanced risk for the bookmaker as bets on one outcome need to be balanced by bets on another to ensure the bookmaker makes money.

        The bookmaker will respond to this by adjusting the odds of the popular horse upward to a higher probability, e.g. 60% And that can happen purely through market behaviour, even though nothing about the horse or the track or the race itself has changed!

        So it could be that Trump is the genuine statistical favourite. But it could also be that Republicans are just more likely to gamble and place bets on their candidate than Democrats are.

        • AIhasUse@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          4 months ago

          Then it’s easy free money, go take it from the degenerates. Nearly all sites are offering double your money if she wins. The rates are usually dynamic, so get it while it’s hot, it may not last at such a discount once the clever betters see this steal.

          On lots of these sites, Harris has been paying half of Biden for the last 3 weeks, well before Biden even announced his retirement. Maybe the betters knew something others didn’t, maybe it was just chance…

            • AIhasUse@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              0
              ·
              4 months ago

              There’s some misunderstanding of definitions going on here. A degenerate gambler is someone who repeatedly makes bad bets. According to you, you would be betting against the people making bad bets. This is what nearly all successful business is, betting against people you think you are smarter than. The real issue here is that you don’t actually believe your own comment. That’s fine, I don’t believe it either.

        • AIhasUse@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          4 months ago

          Yeah, don’t go to the places people are actually willing to risk their money. Go to the people with agendas and no evidence of who they even asked. Good one.

            • AIhasUse@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              0
              ·
              4 months ago

              And yet 3 weeks ago, a bet on Harris would have paid half as much as a bet on biden. That was well before even biden announced he was stopping. People’s money says something.

              • TrickDacy@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                4 months ago

                With a straight face, you say if someone bets on something it’s inherently more true. Betting. An entire industry powered by the mathematical fact that most betters lose. enjoy Putin’s smegma

                • AIhasUse@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  0
                  ·
                  4 months ago

                  Prediction markets. Google it. Check out their successes. Nothing is 100%. The prediction markets have been saying for almost a month th that Harris as president is twice as likely as Biden. Think about it.

                  • TrickDacy@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    ·
                    4 months ago

                    The concept of betting depends on the fact that most betters lose. So yeah I’d say that’s a lot worse than “100%”

              • Magnor@lemmy.magnor.ovh
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                4 months ago

                Holy shit am I really reading an argument about using bets to forecast an election?

                The part of my brain doing math just spontaneously combusted.

                • AIhasUse@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  0
                  ·
                  4 months ago

                  Well, it isn’t fool proof, but somehow, most major prediction markets were saying a harris win was twice as likely as a biden win almost a month ago. If you were asked a month ago who was more likely to win in 2024, would you have said biden or Harris? Probably biden, right? So maybe there is something to them. It’s just an interesting thing. You don’t have to think they are 100%, the world is never that absolute.

          • Billiam@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            4 months ago

            Ah yes, because the wealthy gambling their wealth for the adrenaline high has never happened in the history of ever.

            Ever heard of a card game called chemin de fer?

            • AIhasUse@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              0
              ·
              4 months ago

              This has nothing to do with the wealthy. It’s an interesting observation that the markets called biden dropping out a month before biden announced it.

      • HomerianSymphony@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        4 months ago

        You’re right, but I noticed that the odds have been shifting in Kamala’s favour. She was around +250 just a few days ago, and now she’s about +160.

        Trump is still the favourite to win (-188), but a couple debates might turn that around.