On feddit.de, lemmy.world is only temporarily defederated because of CSAM until a patch is merged into Lemmy that prevents images from being downloaded to your own instance.
So I’ll just be patient and wait. It’s understandable the admins don’t want to get problems with law enforcement.
Makes quite a bit of sense
Depending on jurisdiction it can be pretty hairy if your instance downloads it
IANAL but I’m pretty sure that in the US you have a “duty to report” and you can have legal protections if you end up getting it and then reporting it
But IANAL so I’d recommend looking into it with an actual lawyer if you run a website that hosts content
Won’t that lead to some horrible hug-of-death type scenarios if a post from a small instance gets popular on a huge one?
Yes, but arguably it was never very scalable for federated software to store large media. It gets utterly massive quick. Third party image/video hosts that specialize in hosting those things can do a better job. And honestly, that’s the kinda data that is just better suited for centralization. Many people can afford to spin up a server that mostly just stores text and deals with basic interactions. Large images or streaming video gets expensive fast, especially if the site were to ever get even remotely close to reddit levels.
If you’re only responsible for caching for your own users, you don’t unduly burden smaller instances.
We need more decentralization, a federated image/gif host with CSAM protections
How would one realize CSAM protection? You’d need actual ML to check for it, and I do not think there are trained models available. And now find someone that wants to train such a model, somehow. Also, running an ML model would be quite expensive in energy and hardware.
There are models for detecting adult material, idk how well they’d work on CSAM though. Additionally, there exists a hash identification system for known images, idk if it’s available to the public, but I know apple has it.
Idk, but we gotta figure out something
Maybe a system where the files federate after 3 upvotes from outside the original instance?
That’d still be exploitable. You could just run 3 of your own instances. Coming up with a system to stop malicious users that can’t be gamed would be tricky.
Caching only if some number of your own users upvote might work.
This is what I’m waiting for before I host my own as well. Rather not have to worry that much about constantly having to admin out CSAM.
Not to shill but I just found the other day that cloudflare has a csam scanning and reporting engine built into their proxies. In theory it gives them a window into the data stream by them decrypting and re-encrypting that could snatch a password hash, but 2FA makes that useless after a minute. Basically it scans anything that gets put in the cache and reports it, notifies you to pull it down, and automatically puts up a 451 block on the link.
Feddit is defed from so many instances it’s actually not usable for me.
❤️
Even on public instances, I don’t understand why people think defederating hurts the fediverse. Just join a different instance, how hard can it be?
I’m on 3 different instances right now
Social media needs to be as easy as possible if you’re going to reach the masses. Most people do not give a shit enough to create 3 accounts; they’ll just leave.
That’s just fine with me. Quality > quantity
Some of the best forums I use have just a handful of active users
But quantity and quality are linked. If only, say, 0.1% of people will post high quality content, that means you need to attract a thousand people to get a high quality poster. You can’t just put up a sign that says “high quality posters only”. Plenty of quality posters also want an audience, so they’ll go where the people are and leave if that audience isn’t there.
This. I love reddit r/askhistorians and r/askphilosophy. But the vast fkn majority of people are not qualified to answer historical or philosophical questions. In these cases you need a lot of people on the site.
Ok, and I’ll go where I like the most people I like ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I left reddit for many reasons. I don’t want most of those people here.
So, to be blunt, I don’t care
So circling back then, if the high quality posters leave here, sure you’ll leave with them and you’ll be fine, but it still hurts the fediverse if they leave.
Cutting out huge swaths of users at once just stifles the content including the small percentage of actually quality content. You can’t pick out and keep the good stuff when you cut off whole instances. It also brings down the engagement in your own content.
Take your favorite small forum and now split it according to political opinion, now split it again according to if users pirate movies(lol). Your forum is now dead since no one likes speaking into the void.
We should be treasuring the connections, not putting up walls because it makes the circle jerk easier.
I don’t get it either. Defederation is a tool just like banning or spam prevention. If it’s unused it’s pointless to have.
But you don’t ban everyone for a single offense just like to don’t defederate lightly. If you do then people will move elsewhere and the problem resolves itself
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Right, which is why I put the line after that in
My point is I don’t think it’s necessarily a bad SOP lol
I don’t disagree. I think if it’s an issue the users have the power to resolve it
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: If instances weren’t supposed to be ever defederate, then we wouldn’t have the tool. In the absence of real moderation/admin tools it’s going to get used more frequently. And that’s the admin owner’s right!
Too many people never used forums and think every site needs to talk to every site.
Forums died for a reason. Reddit took over that space for me because it was one place to see everything. Federation is a better version of that. Decentralized and connected is how the Internet should be
Reddit took over because threading on forums was awful. The centralization was just a nice bonus imo.
I added the ‘for me’ to curb the pedants, but it seems you still found your way. Your experience doesn’t invalidate mine, sorry.
Sorry I missed that. My bad. Fwiw I agree. I like having all my gaming subs grouped together.
I would say that a big part of the issue is the difficulty in transferring one’s account. Ignoring the fact that one simply can’t transfer their posts, trying to manually copy all previously subscribed communities to a new account is a rather tedious task. I am aware that there exists scripts that can automate that process, but I don’t think that it’s fair to expect that the userbase should run 3rd party scripts. Until account transfer is properly implemented, defederation will continue to be a major issue.
The migration must be perfect, which means posts, comments and up/downvotes from the source instance must appear as if they’ve always been on the target instance.
I think the best part of the fed is that you can see ALL the content from the other instances. I personally feel like its what the internet is supposed to be.
I just use one, but AFAICT they don’t defederate, they haven’t even defederated anyone on their mastodon instance and that’s had a lot longer to have all manner of inter-instance bullshit develop.
What? Are you telling me to spend 30 seconds to sign up on another instance? What a waste of time! I got better things to do with my precious 30 seconds!
Edit: /s because y’all can’t read sarcasm 🤦♂️
Lol I’ve actually had people say to me things like " Do something productive instead of just commenting." It’s like sweet, you have no idea how much time I straight up waste in things like cookie clicker. Commenting is actually productive by comparison :P
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It would be less of a problem if we as users on an instance could block entire instances, effectively defederating it just for our user. Then those running instances could defederate only in severe cases.
Connect is a great android app where you can block instances. Though I agree this should be a site wide feature.
Blocking an instance on a user by user basis has a key drawback in the sense of those instances you block can still influence the posts and comments via up and down votes
Defederating basically means that those instances no longer have any influence on the community you’re a part of
Basically think of it this way, say you’re on a queer friendly instance that is still federated with a right wing instance. That right wing instance can manipulate the posts of the queer friendly instance by up voting queerphobic content and down voting queer positive content. And you block the instance as a user those votes still federated over so you’ll see queer positive content getting down voted to oblivion.
I can’t wait for Lemmy to catch up with Mastodon in this regard. Between this and not being able to easily migrate your account to a new instance, it doesn’t feel like Lemmy users have as much of the freedom that the fediverse can provide.
Would it though? I understand that the main reason for defederating is to avoid your instance downloading CSAM posted in another instance, which could get an instance maintainer in legal problems. Allowing users to block entire instances won’t help, because the illegal media will still get downloaded by the instance.
I’m not saying defederating should go away, but that this should be an additional way to deal with unwanted content.
IANAL, if subscribers had a decryption key, and the instance only stored encrypted copies of the media, would instances still be liable? Kinda-sorta like Tor relay-only nodes; it seems like only exit nodes get in trouble.
INAL either, but I think these kind of tricks would only work if whoever tries to do them has enough money for lawyers and lobbying to make them work.
“I don’t like drama” is always said by people who cause drama. This drama stirring meme is 100% expected from someone who would write that title
From the same people who gave you
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I’m never unfaithful
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I never get into fights
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I’m not a bully
See also: I tell It like it is; I’m brutally honest
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well that’s just not true
Ehh, who cares? It’s just more political nonsense anyways, and the less I see of that shit the better.
The whole epidemic of defederating is mostly because of all the csam issues, no?
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theres also some other drama with tankies and communists as far as I understand. I dont really care about political views of people
tbh i have noticed them a lot less in the last couple weeks. maybe they’re giving up
Yeah the hexbear brigades seem to have mysteriously disappeared (or at least decreased) after Facebook shut down the big Chinese troll farm recently
What does Facebook have to do with Hexbear?
Yeah it’s usually it’s the other way around, troll farm gets knocked of bigger sites they increase activity on smaller sites.
Though it is possible they may have been disrupted by another actor using capabilities beyond what Facebook has once it was identified. Or maybe they were active on both Facebook and Lemmy, but after Facebook shut them down, it wasn’t worth keeping it going just for smaller communities like Lemmy.
Or maybe it’s just a coincidence. Who knows?
Maybe you just managed to block a lot of them ?
i havent blocked anyone
Wow. What an enlightened centrist take. All views are valid, great take
Found Stalin.
Lemmy.nz recently defederated Hexbear, they’re running out of instances that will talk to them. .world has also defederated as well.
Drama? In the fediverse? It’s more likely than you think!
That white shoe between his feet confused the hell out of me for a second there…
That’s why I’m pretty happy I made one on Lemmy.ml, they’re not really defederating.
This is hearsay, but you might want to be careful of csam material potentially being federated if you self host your instance.
Me, who uses it.
Didnt know you use this account lmao
Ootl here. Whats this about defederating?
Generally we can post topics and comments in any instance and can be viewed from any instance. After defederating, the communication between the instances will be cut. so we cannot comment/post with the instance that was defederated.
Pretty sure they meant why is this a fresh topic with OP acting like it’s happening all over the place. I’m similarly OOTL as I haven’t seen any big surge in defed announcements recently. Though I could understand if that was happening in response to the CSAM issues.
To add on to this: Instance admins have no control over moderating content from other instances that they’re federated with. An acceptable post on one instance could be rule breaking to another. The only option that other instance has is to defederate. Admins have acknowledged defederation is an extreme measure for what is often just a few problem communities or users, but they have no other option.
Is there not an option for blocking just that problem community or user?
They can certainly remove and ban specific users, so it’s not like they have no moderation tools. Defederating is usually the nuclear option when you have instances with things like bigoted content or that doesn’t properly vet its applications
Ein föderiertes Netzwerk, das seinen größten Vorteil aufgrund unterschiedlicher Meinungen selbst deföderiert.
#FindedenFehler
Du hasts erfasst
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