Social media needs to be as easy as possible if you’re going to reach the masses. Most people do not give a shit enough to create 3 accounts; they’ll just leave.
But quantity and quality are linked. If only, say, 0.1% of people will post high quality content, that means you need to attract a thousand people to get a high quality poster. You can’t just put up a sign that says “high quality posters only”. Plenty of quality posters also want an audience, so they’ll go where the people are and leave if that audience isn’t there.
This. I love reddit r/askhistorians and r/askphilosophy. But the vast fkn majority of people are not qualified to answer historical or philosophical questions. In these cases you need a lot of people on the site.
So circling back then, if the high quality posters leave here, sure you’ll leave with them and you’ll be fine, but it still hurts the fediverse if they leave.
Cutting out huge swaths of users at once just stifles the content including the small percentage of actually quality content. You can’t pick out and keep the good stuff when you cut off whole instances. It also brings down the engagement in your own content.
Take your favorite small forum and now split it according to political opinion, now split it again according to if users pirate movies(lol). Your forum is now dead since no one likes speaking into the void.
We should be treasuring the connections, not putting up walls because it makes the circle jerk easier.
I don’t get it either. Defederation is a tool just like banning or spam prevention. If it’s unused it’s pointless to have.
But you don’t ban everyone for a single offense just like to don’t defederate lightly. If you do then people will move elsewhere and the problem resolves itself
Forums died for a reason. Reddit took over that space for me because it was one place to see everything. Federation is a better version of that. Decentralized and connected is how the Internet should be
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: If instances weren’t supposed to be ever defederate, then we wouldn’t have the tool. In the absence of real moderation/admin tools it’s going to get used more frequently. And that’s the admin owner’s right!
I would say that a big part of the issue is the difficulty in transferring one’s account. Ignoring the fact that one simply can’t transfer their posts, trying to manually copy all previously subscribed communities to a new account is a rather tedious task. I am aware that there exists scripts that can automate that process, but I don’t think that it’s fair to expect that the userbase should run 3rd party scripts. Until account transfer is properly implemented, defederation will continue to be a major issue.
The migration must be perfect, which means posts, comments and up/downvotes from the source instance must appear as if they’ve always been on the target instance.
I think the best part of the fed is that you can see ALL the content from the other instances. I personally feel like its what the internet is supposed to be.
I just use one, but AFAICT they don’t defederate, they haven’t even defederated anyone on their mastodon instance and that’s had a lot longer to have all manner of inter-instance bullshit develop.
What? Are you telling me to spend 30 seconds to sign up on another instance? What a waste of time! I got better things to do with my precious 30 seconds!
Lol I’ve actually had people say to me things like " Do something productive instead of just commenting." It’s like sweet, you have no idea how much time I straight up waste in things like cookie clicker. Commenting is actually productive by comparison :P
Even on public instances, I don’t understand why people think defederating hurts the fediverse. Just join a different instance, how hard can it be?
I’m on 3 different instances right now
Social media needs to be as easy as possible if you’re going to reach the masses. Most people do not give a shit enough to create 3 accounts; they’ll just leave.
That’s just fine with me. Quality > quantity
Some of the best forums I use have just a handful of active users
But quantity and quality are linked. If only, say, 0.1% of people will post high quality content, that means you need to attract a thousand people to get a high quality poster. You can’t just put up a sign that says “high quality posters only”. Plenty of quality posters also want an audience, so they’ll go where the people are and leave if that audience isn’t there.
This. I love reddit r/askhistorians and r/askphilosophy. But the vast fkn majority of people are not qualified to answer historical or philosophical questions. In these cases you need a lot of people on the site.
Ok, and I’ll go where I like the most people I like ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I left reddit for many reasons. I don’t want most of those people here.
So, to be blunt, I don’t care
So circling back then, if the high quality posters leave here, sure you’ll leave with them and you’ll be fine, but it still hurts the fediverse if they leave.
Cutting out huge swaths of users at once just stifles the content including the small percentage of actually quality content. You can’t pick out and keep the good stuff when you cut off whole instances. It also brings down the engagement in your own content.
Take your favorite small forum and now split it according to political opinion, now split it again according to if users pirate movies(lol). Your forum is now dead since no one likes speaking into the void.
We should be treasuring the connections, not putting up walls because it makes the circle jerk easier.
I don’t get it either. Defederation is a tool just like banning or spam prevention. If it’s unused it’s pointless to have.
But you don’t ban everyone for a single offense just like to don’t defederate lightly. If you do then people will move elsewhere and the problem resolves itself
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Right, which is why I put the line after that in
My point is I don’t think it’s necessarily a bad SOP lol
I don’t disagree. I think if it’s an issue the users have the power to resolve it
Too many people never used forums and think every site needs to talk to every site.
Forums died for a reason. Reddit took over that space for me because it was one place to see everything. Federation is a better version of that. Decentralized and connected is how the Internet should be
Reddit took over because threading on forums was awful. The centralization was just a nice bonus imo.
I added the ‘for me’ to curb the pedants, but it seems you still found your way. Your experience doesn’t invalidate mine, sorry.
Sorry I missed that. My bad. Fwiw I agree. I like having all my gaming subs grouped together.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: If instances weren’t supposed to be ever defederate, then we wouldn’t have the tool. In the absence of real moderation/admin tools it’s going to get used more frequently. And that’s the admin owner’s right!
I would say that a big part of the issue is the difficulty in transferring one’s account. Ignoring the fact that one simply can’t transfer their posts, trying to manually copy all previously subscribed communities to a new account is a rather tedious task. I am aware that there exists scripts that can automate that process, but I don’t think that it’s fair to expect that the userbase should run 3rd party scripts. Until account transfer is properly implemented, defederation will continue to be a major issue.
The migration must be perfect, which means posts, comments and up/downvotes from the source instance must appear as if they’ve always been on the target instance.
I think the best part of the fed is that you can see ALL the content from the other instances. I personally feel like its what the internet is supposed to be.
I just use one, but AFAICT they don’t defederate, they haven’t even defederated anyone on their mastodon instance and that’s had a lot longer to have all manner of inter-instance bullshit develop.
What? Are you telling me to spend 30 seconds to sign up on another instance? What a waste of time! I got better things to do with my precious 30 seconds!
Edit: /s because y’all can’t read sarcasm 🤦♂️
Lol I’ve actually had people say to me things like " Do something productive instead of just commenting." It’s like sweet, you have no idea how much time I straight up waste in things like cookie clicker. Commenting is actually productive by comparison :P
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