• rockSlayer@lemmy.world
    104·
    14 days ago

    Sure I’ll think about them, as soon as they cede all their wealth and give their companies to the workers.

  • theonlytruescotsman@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
    103·
    14 days ago

    Just a reminder, if you think what happened on DDD Day was murder and not self defense, you don’t have a problem with violence, you just hate when poor people do it.

        • darthelmet@lemmy.world
          100·
          14 days ago

          Oh god. I was reading through the page and this gem was down in the section on the response from healthcare companies:

          Another executive was quoted saying “What’s most disturbing is the ability of people to hide behind their keyboards and lose their humanity.”

          Says the people who hide behind keyboards, phone calls, employees, doctors, guards, police as they hurt people they don’t know. Talk about losing your humanity.

          • Boddhisatva@lemmy.world
            53·
            13 days ago

            Your quote is included in this Financial Times piece (archived version) but it’s immediately followed sorry, preceded by my favorite. And by favorite, I mean one of the most vile things I’ve ever heard.

            One former Cigna executive recalled how the US health insurer used to frequently face threats when claims were denied. “We’d have times when you’d deny proton laser therapy for a kid with seizures and the parent would freak out,” said the former executive.

            Proton Laser Therapy is used to precisely kill tumors. You know, like tumors in a brain that are causing seizures. How dare those parents “freak out” just because you are refusing to cover their child’s cancer treatment? These fuckers are completely out of touch. They honestly think they have the moral high-ground letting kids die in order to increase shareholder value. I now really understand why the guillotine was invented.

            • JovialMicrobial@lemm.ee
              17·
              13 days ago

              That has to be one of the most depraved and appalling things I’ve ever read. I just got a piece of mail from cigna telling me to sign up for their supplemental insurance before something terrible happens to me.

              I think I’ll use it to curse their CEO and lackeys instead. I don’t know if that shit works, but it might offer some catharsis after finding out they deny epileptic children with cancer treatment and are baffled when parents “freak out.” Seriously, those inhuman husks can eat shit and choke.

              • MutilationWave@lemmy.world
                6·
                12 days ago

                Cigna has a new policy, starting 2025, that you can only get your medications covered at either CVS or Walgreens. Not both. So now I have to move two prescriptions to CVS which is way farther away and I prefer Walgreens. This Walgreens is always out of stock on two of my prescriptions, so they forced my hand.

                They didn’t even send a letter, just an email about it. A bunch of people are going to get a very expensive surprise.

                I know it’s not on the level of murder, I’m just kinda surprised they went through with it after what happened.

            • Pandantic [they/them]@midwest.socialEnglish
              16·
              13 days ago

              I was reading a Facebook post about how UHC denied a kid their anti-rejection meds for a liver transplant because there was a cheaper one the kid had already had a bad reaction to, and they thought he should give that one a try again first… 🤦

            • Sanctus@lemmy.worldEnglish
              5·
              12 days ago

              The private health industry needs to die, and all executives with it. I can’t tell if those words are worse than straight up hate speech with the nonchalant way it is worded. He doesnt even consider the lives of those children as real at all. That denying those claims is denying life. This is the prevailing attitude at huge conglomerates and I’ve had my fill. They deserve what they dish out, death.

          • eldavi@lemmy.mlEnglish
            31·
            14 days ago

            they’ve become like politicians or lawyers or police or soldiers who don’t care about the damage they’ve inflicted on millions of people’s lives and believe that what they’re doing is justified because it’s for some “greater good” and never mind that the people they’re harming were never part of that greater good.

          • Ascend910@lemmy.mlEnglish
            6·
            13 days ago

            I will not hesitate to leave my keyboard and go fight the revolution to help seaze control of the means of production

    • MonkeMischief@lemmy.today
      4·
      11 days ago

      I can hold two ideas at the same time here, where I understand why it happened as a consequence of rampant evil on behalf of the ownership class, and it’s a natural comeuppance after pushing the wrong person too far. (I think we’re all shocked it took this long to happen.)

      But also, unfortunately as much as we love a good revenge story, planting 3 slugs into another human being, even a nasty one, in cold blood, is not self-defense. The goal of self defense is the reduction of an attacker’s ability to cause direct and imminent harm to the defender.

      This was assault, and it was murder, and we can reason about the justification behind it, but I sadly don’t really know what it will change, besides the bourgeois getting allocated even more of our money to have protection detail and hold their board meetings in walled enclaves or yahts away from the populace.

      Violence begets violence. Blood begets blood, and those who live by the sword will die by it also. I think any sane rational person can agree this guy reaped what he and his ilk sowed every day, but still be against slaying human beings on the streets to make a point.

      Edit: Knew I was just asking to get ratio’d for not 100% full-throttle stanning the trending narrative, but the actual responses (that I saw) were thought-provoking and well reasoned, so I appreciate that.

      Sometimes it seems people forget the value of discourse and only care about “how popular is my opinion right now.”

      • theonlytruescotsman@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        10·
        13 days ago

        Self defense is also applied when defending others. It’s nice to think someday we might be above violent reaction to violent action. But until there’s an alternative, we’re not, and we shouldn’t be.

        • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
          1·
          12 days ago

          Do you think UHC is going to change its policies in any major way because of this? If it was self-defense, it was not very good self-defense. Like any other employee in a giant corporation, the CEO is easily replaced with someone else who will do the exact same job. Possibly an even better (from the company’s perspective) job.

          This does nothing to help all of the people who are being destroyed by the for-profit insurance industry.

          I would say revenge makes more sense.

          • theonlytruescotsman@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
            3·
            12 days ago

            If they’re smart, they will. If they’re not smart they will need to hope they can afford to give their security team better health insurance than they themselves offer, otherwise we will see repeats of the reason you’re personally allowed to be outside of your company owned work house.

            • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
              1·
              12 days ago

              I have no idea why you think any corporate employee isn’t kleenex, but they are.

              A CEO can’t decide to put people above profits because they will be replaced if they do.

              CEOs are not emperors. The problem isn’t individual CEOs, the problem is capitalism.

              • AhismaMiasma@lemm.ee
                6·
                12 days ago

                Idk how you can take such a strong stance against police for being police but not CEOs. If a cop stops doing their job, they too will be replaced with someone who will.

                Please stop defending executives causing harm.

                • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
                  1·
                  12 days ago

                  Please explain how calling CEOs replaceable kleenex and hating capitalism is a defense of CEOs.

                  Am I not hating capitalism the right way?

                  (Gotta love getting downvoted on .ml in the last comment for calling capitalism the problem, BTW. Guess you all became conservatives.)

  • x00z@lemmy.worldEnglish
    76·
    13 days ago

    Nationalize:

    • insurance
    • hospitals
    • prisons
    • public transit

    It’s perfectly possible to have your capitalist desires and still have a nice socialist structure to protect the people.

      • x00z@lemmy.worldEnglish
        21·
        13 days ago

        From my experience living in a very socialist country; fair housing can be handled by rules instead of ‘nationalizing’. So the rules and pricing around them would be handled by the government, but not the houses themselves.

        A big one I’m missing is schools.

          • x00z@lemmy.worldEnglish
            8·
            13 days ago

            Yeah sure, allowing both nationalized and privatized sectors to coexist can lead to positive stuff.

            • mexicancartel@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
              1·
              13 days ago

              Wait what is that sarcastic? I don’t get it. For us there is co existance of govt. and private schools, and both are being used by the public

              • x00z@lemmy.worldEnglish
                2·
                12 days ago

                I’m mostly talking in the general sense.

                In my country there are a few private schools but employers don’t care for them. They need to follow the official curriculum and the students will have to do the same official tests at the end of the year.

            • JovialMicrobial@lemm.ee
              3·
              12 days ago

              If private schools are going to exist they should have a minimum curriculum actually enforced so that students attending them aren’t put at a disadvantage.

              For example, sex education should be required as part of health and human biology. Not it’s own separate, needlessly controversial thing.

              Many private schools are religious and refuse to teach certain topics, or replace them with nonsense and it hurts their students.

              But also don’t give them tax money. They rake it with their excessive tuition already.

    • Zerush@lemmy.ml
      14·
      13 days ago

      First of all in the list Education, without crucifixes above the blackboards

      • Gingernate@programming.dev
        4·
        12 days ago

        Honestly anything that’s required to live in the society IMO should be socialized. That way no corporation can decided how much my life is worth. I also believe that capitalism has been an extremely powerful tool to bring wealth to the middle class. Socialized Capitalism maybe. Is that possible? Some European countries have done it I guess. I’m no expert or politician, just a working man. Maybe somehow it can be done.

        • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
          3·
          12 days ago

          Markets, not Capitalism, can be useful at lower stages of development. However, over time, they become more and more exploitative and inefficient, transforming into Imperialism across international lines. Public Ownership and Central Planning becomes more efficient with respect to the level of development of market industries.

    • DankDingleberry@lemmy.world
      9·
      12 days ago

      thats kinda every socialist countrys baseline (that works) and its also why the american propaganda associates it with CoMMuNisM.

      • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
        3·
        12 days ago

        What do you mean “socialist country thay works,” in a manner opposed to Communism? Are you calling the Nordic Countries “socialist,” despite reliance on hyper-exploitation of the global south and sliding worker protections, as a means to discredit AES countries?

        • DankDingleberry@lemmy.world
          2·
          12 days ago

          in Austria we call it “sozialdemokratie” and i believed americans translate that to socialism. wich is not national socialism or communism btw. and yes i do because, as i said, you can have a social base for your country and still habe a capitalist economy structure.

          • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
            3·
            12 days ago

            Social Programs within a Capitalist framework are concessions. In the European Countries, these social programs have been eroding over time, because the Workers do not have control. Moreover, the European Countries (and US, of course) rely on Imperialism, ie hyper-exploiting the Global South by exporting Capital and intentionally engaging in unequal exchange. These are parasitic countries that do not fund their safety nets inwardly, but externally, they only work like a leech works to produce food for itself, by taking from others.

    • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
      5·
      12 days ago

      Social programs are not “socialism,” nor are markets “capitalism.” What determines the nature of an economy is what is dominant, the will of Capital or the will of the People. That’s why Social Democracies are sliding into austerity, because the Workers never actually siezed control Capital still dominates the system and disparity rises as a consequence.

    • rumba@lemmy.zipEnglish
      2·
      12 days ago

      They can’t allow that. That’s called leaving money on the table. They will not be satisfied until they have every penny we earn, then, once that food source dries up, they’ll go after each other.

  • TSG_Asmodeus (he, him)@lemmy.worldEnglish
    32·
    14 days ago

    Just a reminder but the bourgeoisie are the “middle class”, and that the CEO who was killed is part of a capitalist oligopoly.

    The bourgeoisie haven’t been targeted here, an aristocrat has.

    • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
      42·
      14 days ago

      Aristocrats were an offshoot of feudalism, the bourgeoisie are the Capital Owners. The “middle class” is the petite bourgeoisie, who are Capital Owners that must labor, ie small business owners. This was the bourgeoisie, not an aristocrat.

      • TSG_Asmodeus (he, him)@lemmy.worldEnglish
        9·
        14 days ago

        Absolutely, I just meant that the inhuman monster who was killed wasn’t bourgeoisie, he was an aristocrat. These are rich families that stay rich by exploiting the poor and (few remaining) bourgeoisie.

        In end stage capitalism you’re oligarchy, poor, or soon to be one of the two.

        • davel [he/him]@lemmy.mlOPEnglish
          38·
          14 days ago

          He wasn’t an inhuman monster, he was a product of the capitalist system. When he dies, someone else replaces him, as the the system demands.

          And, in Marxists terms anyway, he was not an aristocrat. The bourgeoisie overthrew the aristocracy hundreds of years ago. Capitalism is a different mode of production from feudalism. He was a member of the capitalist class, he was bourgeois.

        • eldavi@lemmy.mlEnglish
          11·
          14 days ago

          he’s probably the closest thing that americans can have to an aristocrat; but, traditionally, aristocrats had more relative wealth and influence than this ceo did.

          marxists & leninists have definitions for lots of words that have been adopted by everyone of the last century+ but pop culture likes to redefine those words every few years and seeing the pop culture definitions clash with the accepted definitions is a really common sight here, given pronounced m/l userbase and i love seeing it because it keeps reminding me that i’m so americanized that i can understand that aristocrats like this ceo are more bougie that the bourgeois. lol

          and in a sense, he is an aristocrat because he has significant enough influence in government policy to permanently enrich himself and his allies just like the aristocrats of the past did and his children will likewise hold similar wealth and influence, effectively creating a modern day feudal dynasty.

  • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.worldEnglish
    17·
    12 days ago

    The ones that simp the hardest for the dead CEO were calling anyone who doesn’t love Netanyahu’s genocide a trumper.

  • kittenzrulz123@lemmy.blahaj.zone
    12·
    12 days ago

    ShitLibs when somebody kills/harms/insults a capitalist, a warlord (“defense contractor”), a capitalist dictator, a war criminal, or anyone with power:

  • Yerbouti@sh.itjust.works
    11·
    13 days ago

    My problem with this is, who gets to decide where bourgeoisie start and ends. Because for the majority of the world, the average American is a selfish bourgeois with a big house and two cars, who thinks oppression is when the gas price rise. Kill all the bourgeois fine, but who gets to decide who lives and who dies?

    edit: jeez americans, we dont have to agree on everything and downvote to hell just because someone says something we dont like. Maybe in the US shooting people you dont like seems like a resonable solution, but I’m sorry it’s not that simple in the rest of the world.

    • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
      53·
      14 days ago

      Class is about relation to the Means of Production, not simple wealth. The US is largely made up of labor aristocracy who benefit from Imperialism, like you pointed out, but aren’t bourgeoisie.

      Secondly, putting people to death isn’t the goal, changing property relations is. Adventurism is cool to see, but doesn’t actually change anything.

          • slartibartfast@lemm.ee
            5·
            14 days ago

            Except others above are literally calling the middle class bourgeoisie.

            Maybe you should all start reading, because it’s obvious this community isn’t politically savvy enough to understand the words it throws around.

          • Yerbouti@sh.itjust.works
            4·
            14 days ago

            So business owners must die got you. If I do some freelancing sometimes, should I kill myself? Asking for a friend.

            • noscere@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
              28·
              13 days ago

              if I do some freelancing sometimes, should I kill myself? Asking for a friend.

              It seems that you are intentionally missing the point. If you are selling your own labor, you my friend are working class.

              • Yerbouti@sh.itjust.works
                2·
                13 days ago

                You guys are all really smart and interesting, seriously, but I’m still not convince one can just decide to kill a CEO because he considers them to be part of the bourgeoisie. My original question, is who gets to decided where to draw the line.

            • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
              11·
              13 days ago

              No, I literally stated that the goal isn’t to kill people, but collectivize property. If your only way of dealing with alternative viewpoints is to lie about them, then you should reconsider your own viewpoints.

              • Yerbouti@sh.itjust.works
                4·
                13 days ago

                My comment was going back to the original question: if it’s ok to kill this CEO, who decided who else it’s ok to kill.

                My problem is that, while I fully agree that capitalism is the principal cause of injustice in the modern world, taking justice into one’s own hands through violence will only lead to more violence. The day citizens as a whole are ready for a real social revolution, I might re-evaluate my position on violence, but the majority of US voters have just elected, again, Epstein’s closest friend as president so I doubt that what they want is a way out of capitalism.

                • MonkeMischief@lemmy.today
                  3·
                  13 days ago

                  I agree with you somewhat and I don’t like how much downvote spam you’re getting. You bring up some good points we ought to be mindful of.

                  Right now it seems very clear who the oppressors are, but the scary thing about reactive movements is that even if they accomplish their goal, they tend to seek to justify themselves indefinitely before everyone gets bored and it dissolves.

                  Everybody wants a revolution on paper, but things get messy and blurry once the powder keg goes off, and people en masse would be looking for the next enemy, the next oppressor, that must be hunted down to finally secure Utopia.

                  While I’m an anarchist and want the “ownership class” to answer for their wicked ways, I also don’t think a bunch of independent actors picking targets and gunning them down based solely on their own justification is an ideal solution. Even if I understand why it happens and don’t defend the perpetrators that push people to such extremes in the first place.

    • davel [he/him]@lemmy.mlOPEnglish
      26·
      14 days ago

      This is two questions in one. Cowbee is addressing who is and isn’t bourgeois.

      As to who lives and who dies: nobody has to die, but history has proven that the capitalist class won’t relinquish power peacefully. They will utilize state violence to retain control of the state and to protect their private property.

    • daltotron@lemmy.ml
      3·
      12 days ago

      Because for the majority of the world, the average American is a selfish bourgeois with a big house and two cars, who thinks oppression is when the gas price rise.

      I mean I fucking live here and that’s pretty much my assessment as well to be honest. Maybe not your average american if we’re working on like, who’s right just based on home ownership statistics, but certainly, that’s not really an invalid perception.

    • explodicle@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      19·
      13 days ago

      If they’re “anti-violence” and it doesn’t even cross their mind that they’re defending wage slavery.

    • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
      3·
      12 days ago

      They usually have lemmy.world handles. Not saying you are, but the admins and many of the mods of .world are said turbolibs and shaped their instance around it

      • BendingHawk@lemmy.worldEnglish
        2·
        11 days ago

        Thank you, as someone newer to the lemmy.world, I’m just getting my bearings and have tons to learn here. Doing some poking around and it looks like lemmy.ml may be a better home for me 😁