• enbiousenvy@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
        28·
        2 months ago

        (As per K&G youtube channel) I learned that when it comes to believe system, the Mongols believe that everyone worships the same god, Tengri, but in varied way in every culture/religion they encounter.

        They believe that as long as everyone submit themselves under the Mongol rule, it means they obey Tengri/Mongolian god.

        There are various religious communities inside the empire but they also don’t bother to do the worst thing possible to obliterate anyone who doesn’t submit to Mongol, regardless their believe.

        But I think in a smaller level it’s also not as simple/straightforward as that. Mongolian Shamans also known to have conflicts with the Khan. Sometimes the Khan kept asking the Shamans to do a ritual over and over again until the result aligns with the Khan’s desire. Or sometimes the Shaman (being a regarded class in their society) have their own political motive to do something against the Khan.

  • CherenkovBlue@lemmy.myserv.oneEnglish
    97·
    2 months ago

    Is this…Mongolian propaganda? Because the Kahns definitely did a whole lot of subjugating, raping and murdering. Not sure that really fits the “coexist” meme…

    • scbasteve7@lemm.eeEnglish
      79·
      2 months ago

      The meme format doesn’t really work, but the joke they’re trying to make is that even though they did all these terrible things, it was never because of religion. In fact, they just didn’t give a fuck in what you believed in. Genghis even allowed religious figures to be exempt from taxation.

      • leisesprecher@feddit.orgEnglish
        49·
        2 months ago

        And let’s be honest: the Mongolians were probably not worse than any other invader. War, destruction, looting and raping is kind of par for the course for most civilizations in history.

    • Nougat@fedia.io
      73·
      2 months ago

      Yes, they were. Genghis’ Mongols didn’t generally force religious change in the people who they subjugated.

      • The Snark Urge@lemmy.worldEnglish
        47·
        2 months ago

        It’s actually a cool belief system from what I’ve read, known as Tengriism; they had their own beliefs but (and I hope I have this right) that whatever religious worldview prevailed locally was considered not just valid as a personal or cultural expression, but actually metaphysically true as well. That seems fantastic, doesn’t it? Patchwork metaphysics.

        • reallykindasorta@slrpnk.netOPEnglish
          4·
          2 months ago

          I’m not an expert but from what I’ve read most ancient world deities were attached to certain geographies (it would be reasonable to sort of leave the boundaries of your gods) so I wonder if this comes from that tradition. The roman catholics sure successfully weaponized monotheism.

          • captainlezbian@lemmy.worldEnglish
            2·
            2 months ago

            That’s one way. Another was syncretism. The Romans famously stole the Greek gods, but they also worshipped isis for example. “That god resonates with me, so sure why not”.

            • The Snark Urge@lemmy.worldEnglish
              3·
              2 months ago

              I just love how fun it would be to believe that yes, god is the Creator of the Cosmos and he lives in the sky, I have a rich cosmogony that tries to explain the Universe and Everything…But also, if you cross that mountain to the west and traverse the river beyond, them you’ll be in another part of our empire where the universe was created by the boogers of a Titan or something like that I was too busy picking up my arrows to listen. Bless them.

              • captainlezbian@lemmy.worldEnglish
                2·
                2 months ago

                Yeah that era must’ve been weird. I mostly know of the era of antiquity where “these strange people say the god of medicine is the husband of the Queen of the Dead, but we all know he’s a moon god.”

      • seaQueue@lemmy.worldEnglish
        38·
        2 months ago

        Provided you paid your tribute and obeyed the Khan’s laws they were cool with just about everyone. Fail to do either of those things and you’re in for a bad time.

    • The Snark Urge@lemmy.worldEnglish
      25·
      2 months ago

      It was mixed. Their subjects were more free to travel, practise religions, and generally exist within the empire than without it. It was just that transition. The Mongols liked to do things the easy way, or the really easy way.

  • Sundial@lemm.eeEnglish
    44·
    2 months ago

    Genghis Khan: Are you good at killing and terrorizing my enemies? Yes? Ok, see those fuckers over there? Conquer them. I don’t care how. Burn it all down. Re-route an entire river. I just want them paying tribute.

  • TrousersMcPants@lemmy.worldEnglish
    39·
    2 months ago

    I find it interesting how the Mongolian empire has kind of taken a 180 in its historical image. Not long ago they were viewed as just cartoon villains that destroyed everything. But now you see so many people talking about some of the “good” aspects that it almost makes them seem strangely benevolent.

    The reality of course was that they were an empire, and like all empires they steamrolled and destroyed anything that stood in their way while taking advantage of anything that furthered their goals. They probably killed far more people than they helped if you asked anyone living through the time.

    Dan Carlin’s podcast, Hardcore History, has a series called Wrath of the Khans where he talks about this in length and it’s very interesting to think about.

    • Skullgrid@lemmy.worldEnglish
      27·
      2 months ago

      from my understanding , it’s a chain of

      You see that village over there? they resisted. we burnt everything , killed every man and child, and raped all the women.

      See the other village over there? they joined us, and we gave them access to goods from across the world, the latest technology and treat them better than their previous rulers.

      Your choice.

      • interdimensionalmeme@lemmy.mlEnglish
        1·
        2 months ago

        I will be your best friend, then work hard in my lab to create a new unstoppable virus that puts an end to multicellular life on this planet.

    • drosophila@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
      23·
      2 months ago

      When people think about Rome they usually imagine the roads and the aquaducts and not so much the crucifixions and the slavery.

        • captainlezbian@lemmy.worldEnglish
          9·
          2 months ago

          Rome was both. The mongols raped and slaughtered. The Romans were too civilized to do that as much, instead they just enslaved some of your village so they could die in the mines or fields or construction projects. And then there’s the internal atrocities. Rome had three servile wars and then without easing up even a bit never had another.

          The Kahns were more like the Shahs, conqueror emperors seeking to hold the great titles of the world like emperor of China or pharaoh and in doing so became one. The Romans were like America “we’re different snd our own thing” before being a different kind of brutal

        • SSJMarx@lemm.eeEnglish
          4·
          2 months ago

          The Romans steal and call it taxation, rape and call it marriage, murder and call it justice, and declare that the graveyard is peace.

          (paraphrasing a guy whose name I don’t remember)

        • drosophila@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
          8·
          2 months ago

          Strangely enough I feel like that crucification isn’t much associated with the Romans. Even though the Romans were the ones who carried it out Judas gets almost 100% of the ire.

          Even Jews are given more blame by antisemitic Christians. Like, no one is starting up a pogrom against Italians because their great great great grandpa might’ve been the guy who stabbed Jesus in the ribs.

          • Shard@lemmy.worldEnglish
            5·
            2 months ago

            Theologically, all mankind was to blame because of their sins.

            But it’s far easier to blame a minority and it had the added benefit of pushing whatever agenda the ruling class had.

          • TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.worldEnglish
            1·
            2 months ago

            I think I read somewhere that in order for the Romans to abnegate their role in killing Jesus, as they transitioned to Christianity, they scapegoated the Jews. Although, it was the people who demanded to crucify Jesus. But of course, anti-semites focused on the ethnicity, instead just ascribing the mob justice to just-- on people.

            My guess is that because Jews reject the divinity of Jesus, the Christians found it fair to oppress the Jews. It is not different though to the crusading missions of later Christians in the medieval Europe. The non-Christians refuse to recognise Jesus Christ as both the son of God and god himself, the either they convert, or else be killed or ostracised.

            • MindTraveller@lemmy.caEnglish
              2·
              2 months ago

              You can believe that Jesus Christ is the mortal incarnation of the Lord taken human form to forgive humanity’s sins, and still think Christianity is wrong. Christians worship Jesus. But Jesus is the name for the mortal body of the Lord. Jesus is an avatar. A physical representation of the divine essence. Worshipping Jesus is idolatry. Jesus is as much a physical object meant to represent the Lord as the golden calf was. And worshipping a statue of Jesus on the cross is double idolatry. You’re worshipping an idol of an idol.

              Jesus was a Jew. And anyone who follows His teachings is also a Jew. Christians are heretics who abandon the teachings and values of Jesus by worshipping Him. If you want to follow Jesus, then listen to what He says, and worship the spark of the divine essence that exists within your own mind. Jesus said that YOUR faith can move mountains. You don’t get to do that by worshipping an idol. Christianity is not the way.

              All this to say that Jews can accept the divinity of Jesus. It’s Christians who reject Him.