There’s a ton of trolls in here who can’t celebrate anything good while anything bad is happening. Yes, his response to the genocide in Israel was abysmal. I have no illusions that the right would have done any better, and in fact believe Trump would have thrown more fuel on it. I’m ecstatic that Biden is not running again so that maybe Kamala can finally fucking do something about it. But I think we can take five seconds to admit that he did a lot of good for our country in other ways and made the right call here in dropping out.
For those who won’t budge:
There’s literally no winning, huh? Any flaw or misstep is enough to complain about and use as a reason to abstain or be an accelerationist. Y’all will claim Biden and Dems are monsters for their flaws. All that does is hurt the sane side of our government and make the actual fascists who have done so much worse have a better chance at taking over.
Can y’all please please please not let perfect be the enemy of good for once in your miserable life? This thinking is what brought us Trump in the first place, and while I can agree we need to do better, start at the local level, because only caring when we’re on another brinkmanship presidential race makes you look like short-sighted toddlers.
Trump essentially said he would just let Israel “finish the job”. So yeah, throwing fuel on it is exactly what he would have done. Turned Israel loose.
Finding a reason to permanently write somebody off as bad is the way of the
sithconservatives.Look, all these posts from accounts on lemmygrad, chapotraphouse members, lemmy.ml…they’re all bullshit. I’m convinced that they are entirely Russian trolls. There is no making them happy with slightly left of center. It seems they’ll never be happy until America has been destroyed. There is no point to placating them or even acknowledging their existence.
The “genocide Joe” moniker was particularly stupid. Do you really think Joe Biden was going to single handedly denounce Israel and kill off a key strategic alliance because of a few extremists? It is a completely silly notion.
Leaving aside the actual political substance of your comment. Don’t you think it’s a bit… Head in the sand to assume anyone who disagrees with you is some “Russian troll”? I know we all exist in social media bubbles, myself included, but my social circles and my online circles all share “radical” concerns about the administration and country in general but it generally comes from a genuine desire for our politicians and therefore country to be and do better. We’re all Americans just like (I presume) you.
I joined lemmy.ml cause of the FOSS stuff but I’m learning it comes with a reputation I didn’t know about.
they’ll never be happy until America has been destroyed
it’s important to slap down the nonsense and call out the bullshit at every opportunity. they’re coming out of the woodwork to harass and manipulate everyone into second guessing themselves, for the sole purpose of getting trump into the white house.
fuck that shit.
The problem is this isn’t true. I hate Biden but I despise the way Trump makes him look decent comparatively. How long can keep running slightly worse candidates compared to your previous one (hopefully Harris bucks this trend)?
People who call out Biden get called single issue voters; by people who’s only concern is Trump doesn’t get elected. They are ignoring absymal healthcare, terrible foreign policy, horrible housing prices, costly food bills, even the stable finicial sector is now losing jobs due to the AI craze.
I understand why people are worried about Trump. Still, we need candidates who actually want to run the country correctly and not just cater to the rich. We cannot sacrifice everything because the news makes Trump to be all powerful.
harass and manipulate everyone into second guessing themselves, for the sole purpose of getting trump into the white house.
You are gas lighting. We need to start caling this everytime we see it. Otherwise, you would bother people on Truth Social and Twitter (or even reddit which actually has a population that could matter in a national election) if you wanted people to stop voting for Trump. But that would make too much sense.
Gaslighting? What?
You’re never going to get the perfect candidate until we reform elections (ranked choice, more parties, get rid of citizens united).
Gaslighting is a colloquialism, defined as manipulating someone into questioning their own perception of reality. - Wikipedia
You cannot blame us for not liking Biden when he does not cater to us. We are not the problem, even if you manage to phrase the issue to make it seem we are at fault.
You’re never going to get the perfect candidate until we reform elections (ranked choice, more parties, get rid of citizens united).
Absolutely keep voting the most liberal Congress people you can. But let’s not kid ourselves: you have to vote for the people who want reform election to get reform election - and Biden isn’t one of those people.
Edit: extended last sentence to make it make more sense
Is Trump?
Trump is a distraction. He’s a tool to compromise values and pretend we have a common goal. Yelling at Biden accomplished more already than fearing Trump.
When you say slightly left of center, to whom are you referring? Bernie wasn’t allowed to run for President.
Slapping a rainbow sticker on capitalism doesn’t make the Democrats leftists. We have two conservative parties in this country, just one that’s evolving into their final form (fascism). Don’t get me wrong, I’ll be voting for Harris in November and I’m ecstatic that Biden stepped aside. But if all the leftists online are “Russian bots”, than all you centrists are pro-capitalism LLMs. And we’ll be right back in the same position in four years.
In my childhood (in Russia) I’d talk this way about Russia. So they might be real.
I just (EDIT: later) realized later that many of the good things around me are too, well, not from Mars.
And that many of the bad things around me are absolutely not specific to Russia or ex-USSR.
And that one thing absolutely right is scolding all you don’t like and not bowing your head, because when you accept fools and their foolery because of some false “lesser evil”, you lose.
Not all of them are trolls. Shit, I’ve met tankies more libertarian that a lot of people “not interested in politics”, because the norm for that grey mass has shifted to a really dark place.
There’s a ton of trolls in here who can’t celebrate anything good while anything bad is happening.
The spectacle of the presidential election has diverted a lot of attention away from the genocide in Palestine, the upswell in COVID infections and deaths nationally, and the decaying domestic infrastructure driven by climate change. Biden’s retirement isn’t changing any of that.
There’s literally no winning, huh?
Kamala’s been the heir designate to the party for less than a week and she’s already writing condemnation letters aimed at Palestinian Rights protesters in DC. Its a grim state of affairs, particularly with the police violence on student campuses still fresh in people’s minds.
Can y’all please please please not let perfect be the enemy of good
We’re waiting for some good. So far, we’ve had a bumper crop of cutesy memes and a bit of relief from the deeply depressing poll numbers that signaled Trump would receive a free ride into the White House in November. But we’re still waiting for a candidate to put more on the table than her famous “$20k in relief for a Pell Grant Recipient who runs a business in a disadvantaged community for at least three years”.
Not everyone is happy to open their wallets and bust out the walking shoes for just any generic liberal candidate.
If stopping genocide is your biggest issue, I suggest going to rail against in it right-wing spaces instead. There’s a lot more pro-genocide to stop there.
rail against in it right-wing spaces instead
If you’re defending a genocidal administration, you’re a right-winger.
I cannot wrap my mind around this level of privilege. In all honesty I really can’t. I don’t think there’s a thing I could do to change your opinion and this nugget:
Not everyone is happy to open their wallets and bust out the walking shoes for just any generic liberal candidate.
Suggests you or others with your opinions won’t vote because… she’s generic? Or didn’t do enough yet? And claiming that Biden dropping out won’t end the genocide, so let’s not see it as positive?
What saint would you prefer we vote in? Can you explain how they are both morally spotlessly pure AND have a snowball’s chance in hell? If you’re convincing enough, maybe that second coming of Jesus will lead us to a utopia. /s
Some of us are not in the position of being able to use a foreign tragedy as our stopping block. Some of us have our rights and safety on the line.
I cannot wrap my mind around this level of privilege.
Folks on Lemmy think this entire election revolves around them.
This is the biggest self-own, wow.
I just stole this and it’s already relevant
“You know, in recent weeks it’s become clear to me that I need to unite my party in this critical endeavor. I believe my record as president, my leadership in the world, my vision for America’s future all merited a second term,” Biden said. “But nothing, nothing can come in the way of saving our democracy. That includes personal ambition. So, I’ve decided the best way forward is to pass the torch to a new generation. It’s the best way to unite our nation.”
It’s mind boggling the “new generation” to pass the torch to is nearly 60.
Hot take: 60 is a perfect age. It’s when most people (especially lawyers) have a ton of experience, but are mentally just as sharp as 30 year olds. In ancient human societies she’d be “an elder” in charge.
History will paint Biden very kindly. This speech will be the example of a humble, good man.
This is like calling a school bus driver a hero because at the last possible second he hit the brakes instead of intentionally driving the bus off a cliff.
It’s good he stepped aside, but he waited till pretty much the last second and clearly didn’t want to hit the brakes.
In that analogy, the heroes are all the people that got him to hit the brakes.
He could have shrugged it off like RBG did and fuck everyone for generations. Better late than never.
Better late than never.
Obviously.
But if a guy has a gun next to your head and ends up not pulling the trigger, are you gonna talk about how good your kidnapper was?
You still got kidnapped, and you still had a gun to your head.
Why thank the person who caused the problem and not the hostage negotiaters who got you released?
I didn’t call him a hero, though, I called him humble and good. In your zeal to urinate on corn flakes, you forgot basic reading skills.
Good for being complicit in the Genocide of Palestinians?
If he’s “humble and good” he’d have stepped down a year ago so voters could have a real primary and not a coronation.
Before doubling down, it might be wise to know what you are doubling down on. Aggressive foolishness is still foolishness.
i remember when my debate strategy was yelling and stomping my feet. then i stopped being a toddler
What does that even mean?
It sounds like you’re just trying to make an insult that won’t get removed for being an insult…
I’m not here to slap fight, find someone else.
Maybe the timing was to ensure an albatross like JD was firmly tied around his neck.
So you think Biden and the DNC colluded and he always meant to stand down?
He just waited until there wasn’t enough time for a primary so Kamala could get it?
Don’t get me wrong, she’s got a better shot than Joe. But if you legitimately think they planned this timing…
That’s not a good look.
Especially for voters in NH who had their primary delegates stolen.
Or he waited until the Trump campaign sunk millions of dollars into a strategy that has now been completely subverted and which they have no real way out of without a massive pivot like dropping Trump which isn’t going to happen. If that’s the case, I’d call it a pretty savvy move.
But that still took the decision of who the nominee should be out of the hands of voters.
That’s an interesting analogy because objectively the bus driver is a hero for stopping a bus full of kids hurtling off a cliff.
If he wasn’t the one flooring it headed right to the cliff…
And if he didn’t take months of people telling him to hit the brakes while he screamed back only “Lord God” can stop the bus
At first, I was pissed that he didn’t bow out two months ago.
Now I have nothing but respect for the man. He realized when to step aside and let his partner take the reign, and did so with effective enough timing to throw a massive wrench into the republicans’ plans.
If Kamala wins, history will see him as the kind elder statesman who knew when to step aside for the good of the country.
If Trump wins, history will remember Biden as “the antichrist, bringer of despair, slow witted grim reaper, sad.”*
*This antiwoke curriculum is approved by the council of Gilead.
Biden got forced out by his donors and other Democrats (establishment ones surprisingly). He would have kept running if he could.
So what? At the end of the day he did what people wanted, it just took a demonstration of how badly we wanted it.
Why respect a Genocidal maniac for stepping down only when forced to do so?
Just be happy he’s not running anymore nobody’s buying these fairy tales about how great he is.
Why respect a Genocidal maniac for stepping down only when forced to do so?
Because the alternative is they don’t step down.
Except no, that’s not the alternative. The party gets to choose the candidate. Biden tried to stay and they told him to get out the easy or the hard way.
You must have forgotten Biden not holding a primary.
What’s “the hard way”?
They openly ditch him during the convention.
Donors already pulled out. Establishment called for him to step down voluntarily. if he doesn’t listen he doesn’t magically get to stay.
If you think Biden could’ve been forced out if he wasn’t willing to step down then you don’t know anything about politics.
I bet you were one of those people demanding the sergeant at arms arrest people who ignored subpoenas during Trump’s first impeachment.
Do you understand how the president is picked? They need delegates to run.
If Biden is a “genocidal maniac”, what do you label actual “genocidal maniacs”
Are you denying Biden is complicit in Genocide?
If Biden is a “genocidal maniac”, what do you label actual “genocidal maniacs”
Are you denying that you have zero geopolitical experience whatsoever? Because unless you do, you have no fucking clue what Biden’s options even are, being that you’re a one note armchair political scientist without the ability to even acknowledge the most basic of realities surrounding the situation.
You obsessively post about this issue several times every day to the point that it would be weird even if you yourself were both a Palestinian and also have hard evidence that Biden himself pulled the trigger every single time someone died.
Your obsession here is beyond strange, and it makes it impossible for anyone observing to think something weird isn’t going on with you
It’s so fascinating that you simultaneously think that people can’t possibly know anything about politics if they don’t have geopolitical experience, and yet you can be absolutely certain that there is no way biden could be guilty of killing Palestinians unless he is personally executing them. Your self contradictions are so blatant, but you seem to still be completely blind to them. When you grow up, you will look back on this version of yourself as so childish.
honest question, are you guys making any headway outside of hexbear and lemmygrad? i mean i’m sure everyone loves you in your safe space, but you have to know your “vote josevlad marxtalin 2024!!!” stance is pretty laughable out in the world
You can’t .ml Biden committing Genocide away no matter how hard you try.
K
Very stoic in your support for Genocide I see. So cool and manly.
calling me pro-genocide doesn’t make it so. no matter how hard you try.
So you don’t support Joe Biden who is complicit in Genocide?
So, serious question: Do you only step up to defend other countries, or are the people in the U.S., where I assume you live, also on the agenda for the evening? Cause yeah, Genocide is pretty shit. Evil even.
What about the black communities?
Homeless?
Native American?
Disabled?
Veterans?
Children?
And the larger issue of fucking fascism that leads to precisely what you’re so stuck yelling about blindly?
Here’s what I think: Most of you are parrots. Actual sentient wagons transformed into people. Many of you don’t have many details, you kneejerk on issues that cannot be approached from any other angle than “Yeah, of course I agree” and challenge everyone who doesn’t immediately bow with “YOU SUPPORT GENOCIDE?!” as if you’re the seagulls from Finding Nemo. Now maybe I’m wrong. Maybe YOU stand more often. If so, why stand with the crowd who will move on when the next big thing happens?
Never, EVER, remove support for the greater good when the greater evil guarantees more suffering. Otherwise all you’re doing is becoming a part of the problem.
You can look at their history and see that since October they’ve basically commented or posted about anything else. It’s several times a day they are canvassing for “Palestine” ie. Trump.
Of course i do. Which is why I will never support someone complicit in Genocide. Unlike the people enabling Fascism.
I want you to think loooong and hard about what you just said. Really consider it.
Your track record seems to have zero criticism of Republicans, when we know Trump would be far worse in supporting Israeli warcrimes. Just this once, can you come out and say that Trump would actually be worse for the one topic you ever seem to discuss?
Your track record seems to be making shit up and hoping nobody will ever fact check it.
John Adams is the first American president to make unpopular decision and did not let ego rule him, despite losing him the election. Americans were baying for blood to go to war against the French in 1799 but Adams refused, knowing that America will lose if he declared war. It cost him his re-election, but he did the right thing.
Edit: wrong year
John Adams is the first American president to make unpopular decision
Nobody tell this guy about the Whiskey Rebellion.
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No one fucking forgot we just dont want the guy who says he’s going to accelerate the genocide to get in and with someone fresh it will be easier to pressure them to end our material support for the attrocities.
He is stepping aside and letting his VP, who has very notably not supported Israel, take the lead. Can you shut your piehole for a second? You got what you wanted, “Genocide Joe” is no more.
She’s light years better than Biden.
But she still takes AIPAC money, and spoke at their conference 7 years ago after they helped get her senate seat
https://www.vox.com/2024-elections/362782/kamala-harris-gaza-israel-palestine-biden-netanyahu
But we literally just saw public criticism work, why are you so quick to say we have to stop?
We can’t just show up once every four years and vote. We need constant pressure on politicians for them to do the right thing
Because there’s constant pressure on them to do the wrong thing, and that almost always comes with “donations”.
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if your goal is a world where no one ever says anything good about biden, ever, then you’re in for a disappointing life.
also, if you think the united states will ever stop sending money and weapons to israel due to many many economic, geopolitical and military strategic factors–same thing, get ready for sadpepe.gif for the rest of your days.
Stop feeding him lol. Clearly incapable of nuanced conversation.
yea… he got boring much quicker than the other guy
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LOL saying “biden did a good thing” is not supporting genocide, no matter how hard some people wish it were. as others have said, you CAN oppose some of a person’s actions and praise others.
i will add though, for THIS election, trying to convince people that they’re “supporting genocide” by voting at all is not only an egregiously, laughably flawed argument, but it’s making things worse, not better
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no where in any of my comments did I say people should vote
that’s what’s called a ‘freudian slip’
If the thing you give up is obnoxious axe grinding, then yes.
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And your not? Yout stopped paying your taxes right because it is genocide. I mean your not just supporting it out of a little inconvenience that might happen in your life right?
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bidens realtion to the actions to israel is equivalent to the voter/taxpayers relation to biden. both are bound in relationships that limit the actions they can take. Im fine with hey he could limit more of what we do in relation to what he has to do via congress but the whole supporting genocide thing then its like well then so are you and all the west by and large. you can’t make one indirect thing as being the thing and not ignore the other indirects along the line and say oh well thats to indirect.
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Good thing he bowed out then!
no he isn’t. there are many world leaders and the us is not the only one with israeli relations and support and to boot he is not the sole government of the us especially in relation to israeli relations who has massive support with some congressmen.
Do you actually care about the genocide in any actionable way besides yelling at people online?
If he did, he’d be doing something about it like protesting or getting involved with local government (which involve going outside, the horrors) instead of trying to act superior to a bunch of strangers on the Internet. Doing the latter takes absolutely no effort, so that’s the lane he chooses.
No. We are considering multiple challenges at the same time.
His decision here does help unite the democrats and brings hope to the younger generations. But, this decision also does not absolve him of his war crimes. Both can be true.
Fuck off Joe, you’re slightly better than Hillary because you did eventually listen to reason.
But he should have said years ago he wasn’t going to run in 2024.
Hell, even if he just said it 6 months ago we could have had a real primary
It’s good he finally did the right thing, but he came damn close to not. He’s not a hero because he stopped doing the wrong thing at the last possible second. A week ago he wouldn’t stop rambling about “Lord God” was the only one that could make him drop
Dude is off the deep already, and has been for a while.
He didn’t think he’d be pressured out 6 months ago. He’s obeying popular opinion that shifted after the debate.
Someone here compared it to convincing an elderly parent to stop driving. They’re not heroes either, it just sucks for everyone that nature works this way.
He did like a tenth of the press conferences as the last two presidents…
And people were pointing out his age related issues 4 years ago.
The only reason it took till the first debate for a critical mass to demand he drop out, was that was the first people had seen him speak for longer than 5 minutes. Ive been calling for him to do more public appearances/interviews this whole term, lots of us did. But we were called conspiracy nuts for saying an 80 year old was as capable as the average 80 year old.
The people around him day to day knew how bad it was and knew he’d be forced to step down if the public knew. So they fucking hid him. Just like Republicans did with Reagan.
Like it or not, that’s what happened.
I hope you at least learned that it’s not just ok to criticize your “team” it’s fundamentally necessary.
If people hadn’t, wed still be running Joe and trump would still be likely to win.
nah. i won’t call him a “hero” but this is the best way it could have happened, rather than republicans having YEARS to foment hatred and spin conspiracy theories and make everyone waste time debunking lie after lie about harris.
and nobody’s going to switch from D to R because it’s harris instead of biden. you can be fairly certain, however, that there WILL be people voting who weren’t going to vote at all when it was biden instead of harris
should he be applauded? yes. is he a hero? no. should he have announced it years ago? no fucking way.
but this is the best way it could have happened
The best way was this happening a year ago so we could have a primary…
But you don’t think Dem voters should have had a say?
I’m a lot more democratic than you apparently…
LOL good job parroting fox news’s desperate “bIdEn ChEaTeD tHe DeMs!!!” talking points. i’ll bet you’re doing it for free too.
news flash-- biden isn’t running, and you could have voted for anyone you wanted in the primary. so this entire “debate” about biden’s shoulda/woulda/coulda, while entertaining to obliterate people in, is getting the tankie position exactly nowhere
What?
So if Faux News says we didn’t get a real primary…
We have to lie and say we did?
That’s Trumper logic man
Have fun with that.
Edit:
and you could have voted for anyone you wanted in the primary.
In my state (and others) Biden was the only Dem on the primary ballot…
LOL why weren’t you and the apparently millions of other like minded yous mobilizing to either get someone else on the ballot, or writing in someone else?
or were you just accepting what you were told to, like you’re accusing everyone else of doing now?
again–what do you think you’re going to accomplish with all of these sad desperate dEmScHeAtEd attacks? making people not vote now?
have fun with that
btw: voter registrations for 18-34 year olds surged AFTER harris became the nominee. that means people are registering specifically to vote for harris. does that grind your gears? LOL
again–what do you think you’re going to accomplish
Did you not see what happened to the Republican party when they stopped holding their politicians accountable?
Why are you trying to make the democratic party just as shitty?
btw: voter registrations for 18-34 year olds surged AFTER harris became the nominee. that means people are registering specifically to vote for harris. does that grind your gears? LOL
No…
It’s a good thing, I’ve spent over a year saying Biden and Hillary are the only two who could.lose to trump…
I’m glad Biden finally listened to people who knew what he was talking about about. But I’m still mad that he waited so long we didn’t get a primary.
You seem to be operating under football logic where people pick a team and only say good things about them.
Which again, is what made the Republican party into what it is today.
So I ask again, why do you want both major parties to act like Republicans?
If youre not gonna answer, there’s no point in me wasting time with you.
“Defending Democracy”
lmao
What’s funny?
No one voted for Harris. She was just… selected. Without a single vote. Democrats… spouting Democracy. fkin lol.
Her name was on the ballot in 2020, everyone who voted for Biden also voted for Harris.
You appear to be conservative, so here is the best online course I could find to teach you about the U.S. Constitution:
America’s Written Constitution by Yale University on Coursera:
- Covers themes like popular sovereignty, separation of powers, federalism, and rights.
- Taught by Professor Akhil Reed Amar.
- Includes videos, readings, and quizzes.
Let me know when you’ve completed it and we can have a real big boy conversation ;)
I should vote for the fascist then?
You should vote for whoever you feel best represents you and your needs.
So probably not the fascist.
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