I wonder if it’s just a bit of an overreaction to draw conclusions about the Democratic Party when the difference between Kamala and donvict is < 2%, the Democrats ran a VP after Biden dropped out very late in the election cycle without any primary, incumbents the world over are getting voted out, the candidate was a woman in a nation full of misogyny, AND people have this perception about inflation (that is mostly wrong).
Anyone going to factor that in at all?
Democrats also put themselves in a position where the only choice was a vp candidate who was the least popular candidate 4 years ago and only became VP because Biden promised a woman of color.
The fact that the difference between Kamala and convict was so small is enough grounds by itself imo
Say it casually how Biden dropped out very late in the election cycle. He just decided to drop out. Not like the party forced him to drop out or anything. Got some wolves in the party it seems.
No shit?!
The writing was on the wall when they ignored voters moving towards the Democratic Socialist. The money was more important.
Populism is relatively easy, even when that populist is a fascist.
How do you construct a worker’s party in a country where corporate bribery has been made legal and there is a class of billionaires ready and eager to squash any legitimate improvement to worker’s living conditions with their nearly unlimited power/capital? They literally own the means of state and media propaganda, and the means of state violence to protect our beloved economy from the society that exists in subservient subsistence to it.
I vote blue out of harm reduction, but there’s no escape in the US without necessary complete governmental and economic collapse. It is too well corrupted into protecting capital over people. I think in the desire for perpetual stability for the sake of commerce/profit, something vital was simply discarded in the modern nation state model:
The renewal that can only come from the collapse of the past.
the party is hopelesslty corrupted and wont even acknowledge why they lost. Its time to dump the dems and build up a progressive party.
This video shows why that may well likely have to be done within the democratic party itself. The information in that video is of central importance to a plan like to get progressivism on its feet.
Absolutely this.
How many times are we gonna be Charlie Brown trying to kick the football before Lucy pulls the ball away?
This party isn’t here for us. They do not represent our best interests. They simply care about the ruling class/ultra wealthy.
They have purposely not followed through on their campaign promises so many times. Time to dump them.
DNC isn’t getting my vote anymore. Time for a new party.
That’s all well and good, if you want to lose elections for the foreseeable future.
Because it takes a long, long time to build up a new party and have it actually win federal elections.
By then we won’t have elections anymore.
That would be after FPTP voting is replaced with RCV or STAR in all 50 states. Trying a third party before those steps will hand the federal government to the GOP for the remainder of my life.
That would be after FPTP voting is replaced with RCV or STAR in all 50 states.
If we ever get that, there will be a new “that would be after” to replace it. If Democrats want to stop Republicans and are so worried about splitting the vote, maybe Democrats should abstain from running.
They’re clearly not up to the task and would rather appease fascists here and abroad.
Not really. What you’re asking for is for some unknown third party (like the Pacific Greens 😂😂😂) to pop up into place and immediately take the national reigns like a boss. That ain’t happening, bruv, otherwise it already would have. Ditching FPTP at least gives the average voter the opportunity to vote for different people (like Sanders not having to caucus with Democrats, or Working Families Party not having to caucus with Democrats, etc).
Or you can sit back and vote third party in a defacto two party system. It’s worked well so far. 🤷🤷♀️🤷♂️
Ditching FPTP at least gives the average voter the opportunity to vote for different people
And it only requires having people who are willing to pass it in office. Which isn’t ever going to happen. Which means it’s a great prerequisite that needs to be met before something you don’t want to happen.
Perhaps in your state, but in Oregon, we can bring initiatives to the ballot through voter signatures. It’s how we got RCV in Multnomah county, and it’s how the (failed) Measure 117 landed on our ballot this year. Sadly, it was badly written and Oregon voters are gunshy after the (also horribly written and implemented) Measure 110 (narcotics decriminalization) got onto the ballot.
Perhaps in your state,
Yeah. No real referendums in my state. So naturally we’ll need it in all 50 before we consider changing the sweetheart deal centrist Democrats and their Republican buddies have.
I don’t think RCV or STAR is either enough to disrupt the status quo with a third party nor feasible enough to get in place.
Then we’re stuck with semi permanent GOP control, then.
I doubt it, the DNC will likely run a faux-progressive campaign next election and perhaps win. However, the answer has always been revolution.
I’m talking less about the executive branch than I am the legislative branch. Congress has been firmly in conservative control for over 30 years (I’m old enough to remember third way Democrats, Reagan Democrats and the moral majority), and without a change to FPTP voting, we’re going to be stuck with it veering further to the right.
Even with a change, the US will continue to rocket rightward until it collapses.
I love how splitting the vote cost them a few seats, and your plan is to split the vote.
That’s not necessarily the way to “build a progressive party”.
On the right-wing side think of how MAGA has overshadowed “Republican”, eating it from the inside.
Hating people is easy. Caring about them is (apparently) hard. Quicker, easier, more seductive is MAGA compared to being progressive.
Totally, but MAGA took decades to sprout from a Tea Party seed, or further back even.
I still call them teabaggers, or more appropriately, TeaBirchers, since what is now branded “MAGA” (eyeroll), and for a brief period of time called “teabaggers” [1], is the same warmed-over shit from the Birchers, basically.
[1] Though they scream and lie about it now, they called themselves teabaggers. Some of them did not know about the sexual term, but I’m sure some did, and hoped to use it as a way they were going to be sexually dominating others and then laughing about it later. Once Maddow and others started openly mocking them for it, they figured it might not work out like they thought and then pretended the MEAN LIBERALS are the ones that called them this. I kept getting banned from Denver Post forums for calling them by their original name, because they had teabagging moderators.
The Party for Socialism and Liberation exists. If you want something less Socialist, more Social Democrat, the Greens already exist.
Dems didn’t “lose” the working class. Misinformation overshadowed the message.
There’s a lot the Dems can do for unions and working-class normal folks. But Kamala could have cured cancer with a touch and they wouldn’t have believed it because everything else they consume downplays the improving economy, security and stability under Biden so it was ultimately useless.
Buckets of roubles on Facebook and X won this election.
The Dems began bleeding the working class after Carter.
The problem is that - outside of Obama in 2008 (who campaigned as left of Clinton), and Sanders in 2016 and 2020 - there have been almost ZERO efforts to court the increasingly jaded and apathetic working class voters who have to work harder and harder every cycle only to be disappointed by the candidate they believed in not following through with decreasingly attractive policy proposals.
Again, she wasn’t TERRIBLE, and no matter how disconnected she was, she would have been > than 🍊… but her team had her trotting out LIZ CHENEY over allowing a Palestinian to speak on stage at the DNC.
This idea that there was NOTHING she could have done to win over the small percentage of apathetic voters to push her over the edge is simply not true.
The enthusiasm from the Democratic base disappeared shortly after the campaign backed off the sort of initial good decisions they started off with (like choosing Walz and letting him call Rs weird).
…And then the overpaid completely disconnected party consultants just kept pushing her to move all the way to the right as much as she possibly could under the delusion that THIS time (like Clinton tried) we could get the R cultists to come out and vote for her… I mean they had a literal billionaire Mark Cuban excited for their candidacy.
The DNC has completely abandoned the working class. It’s not misinformation. They simply do not care about us.
The DNC has completely abandoned the working class.
Maybe you should try looking up Democrat’s voting history and their accomplishments for the working class before you make statements like this.
Democrats are pro union. Biden was the first president in U.S. history to stand on a picket line with striking workers.
And stupid Americans just decided to vote in the born rich billionaire that has openly stated he is anti-union and anti-worker rights. Democrats aren’t the problem. Stupid Americans are.
Democrats aren’t the problem. Stupid Americans are.
Surely, this messaging is going to help your party from being seen as the out-of-touch party of “coastal elites”
Also, the Democrats are one of the two most powerful capitalist political organizations in the world. They fight and organize for capital, not the working class and definitely not the working class outside the US.
Surely, this messaging is going to help your party from being seen as the out-of-touch party of “coastal elites”
I’m not a politician. I don’t care about messaging. I’m stating the obvious. I don’t care how many feelings get hurt.
People hold the Democrat party to this extremely high standard and think it’s their job to woo and coerce people to vote for them. That’s horse shit. It’s American’s responsibility to be good citizens and inform themselves responsibly and be adults by making intelligent decisions based on actual data.
And anyone that’s actually done that knows that the better decision for average Americans is FAR AND AWAY the Democrat party.
They fight and organize for capital, not the working class
Their voting history proves you wrong.
I’m tired of people expecting Democrats to be picture perfect while Republicans prance around talking about immigrants eating people’s pets and not being sexually attracted to M&M’s anymore because liberals ruined that for them and winning fucking elections by doing so.
It’s fucking pathetic and it’s American’s fault for being stupid. Period.
That is baloney.
Yup.
Everyone’s crying about the Democrat party, but they’re ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE better than the Republican party. Seriously, people need to stop whining and compare both party’s voting history and accomplishments. It’s not even a contest. Democrats get more done.
The bottom line is the majority of Americans aren’t intelligent enough to navigate this new age of weaponized misinformation. That isn’t Democrat’s fault. All they can really do is try to weaponize misinformation to combat Republican’s misinformation. And that’s morally wrong. Probably the only way though.
Stupid populace. Dark future.
Everyone’s crying about the Democrat party
Also, please, for the love of $DEITY, don’t call them this. There is no such thing as the Democrat party. This is an epithet from the right.
You can reconstruct the Democrat party all you want. It won’t make stupid Americans smart. They’ll still fall for whoever is best at peddling misinformation, fear, and hate.
The internet and media in general has been weaponized. So unless we’re talking about the Democrat party learning how to go low and spread extreme misinformation and paranoia in order to win an election, then we’re just wasting our time talking.
So unless we’re talking about the Democrat party learning how to go low and spread extreme misinformation and paranoia in order to win an election
And even if they did decide to do this? How are they going to counter the massive disinformation networks the qons the qon-adjacent run? I mean, WashPo, NYT, CNN, MSNBC - all run by the corporate-friendly that will kneecap Democrats to get goodies handed out to them. Then there is Facebook, Xitter, Youtube - all skewed to the qons. And that’s not even getting into local news being completely fucked (Sinclair), outlets like Faux and OAN, along with hate radio, and then the broverse on podcasts, YT channels…
The Democratic Party and/or the progressives have nothing even anywhere close to the coordinated and well-funded campaign the qons have…
Totally agree.
The bottom line is Democrats aren’t going to win a misinformation campaign against Republicans because of the reasons you brought up and because they simply aren’t as amoral as Republicans are.
It really is up to Americans to be mature, informed, responsible voters who aren’t susceptible to misinformation. And that simply isn’t going to happen. Especially not now that we’ve given total control to a party that ran on deconstructing the public education system.
Realistically, from my personal, pessimistic point of view…we’re completely and utterly fucked and will probably see a steady decline in this country for the remainder of our lives.
I’m all for it. The Democrats have been a joke since they fucked Bernie. They’re terrible and don’t give a shit about their voters.
Oh, they were a joke long before that. In 2006, when we went from having a congress that rubber stamped everything Bush wanted to a congress that said they were displeased with Bush as they rubber stamped everything he wanted.
I don’t know much about the US politics before 2010, that’s when I migrated to the US.
Basically anything was approved as long as it was framed as national security.
The terrorists won with 9/11
Oh yeah, I’ve heard about that from some YouTube folks. Isn’t that when the patriot act was started when the government started reading people’s texts and listening to their phone calls ever since?
Yup, it was the catalyst that led us to where we’re at. It let the government seize unconstitutional levels of power.
Man, next 4 years are going to be very interesting
To be clear to the naysayers: It’s not that we’re angry Bernie got fucked, it is what it is. We’ve just seen the writing on the wall SINCE he got screwed over.
Also we’re a little angry.
We’ve had several elections in recent memory where it’s been really clear that progressive Democrats win elections compared to centrists (mostly midterm elections but still). Somehow that lesson hasn’t stuck, and I wouldn’t be surprised if Harris’ defeat also doesn’t teach this lesson. At this point the old guard really just needs to die.
People want change, GOP is offering it and people are eating it up. They just have no idea how incredibly stupid that version of change is.
They just have no idea how incredibly stupid that version of change is.
Yeah, when they find out that things like vaccines might be up for grabs they might be in for a real ride.
The fact that it is even a POSSIBILITY is sheer insanity. If donvict had excess deaths during Covid [1], letting a dumbfuck loser like brainworms ban them would kill even more. This time it’d be kids as well as the very old, most likely. Needless, excess death.
And that’s just the start on this loser’s notion of “change” that we might get…
[1] A bit of a joke. The policy failures of donvict killed nearly half a million Americans.
Seriously. I don’t care that much about fluoride in the water being removed for four years, but I’m quite grateful that my youngest is getting the last of his vaccines before January. Hopefully it just ends up a “states rights” thing. Still sucks for herd immunity but at least I’ll still be able to keep my family vaccinated.
Still sucks for herd immunity but at least I’ll still be able to keep my family vaccinated.
I suppose. Some states are already in a bad way, like PA: https://www.altoonamirror.com/news/local-news/2024/09/pa-vaccine-exemptions-raises-fear-of-outbreak/
Having a dipshit like RFK being validated, nevermind actually setting policy, is going to set this nation even further backwards.
Indeed. Lending any legitimacy to his conspiracy theories is a bad thing. True of Trump and Musk as well, as with any of that clown car.
Monied interests wield their donor privilege to ensure these lessons are never learned nor discussed in media. This influence is so powerful, Harris campaign wasn’t even allowed to lie and pretend to be populist like Trump had been doing, in order to attempt to win the election. The donors must be appeased above all else.
Personally, I think the Democrats are doomed to ratchet further into the grip of conservatism in perpetuity. But if you really want to reform the Dems instead, it has to start with significant campaign finance reform to end the legalized bribery.
Reconstruct?
Raize it with impunity and forge something actually good
The Party for Socialism and Liberation is attempting to do just that.
Those are powerful words historically misused in America. Isn’t that a risky name to go with?
Not at all. By wiping away the piles of slander and lies proudly, Socialists can better connect with historical socialists and communists.
Um, sorry, given how much terms have been perverted here, you might as well call them the Party For Pedophilia and Terrorism as far as trying to sell this to average Americans.
I mean, people still cannot even understand inflation. Imagine more than a century of propaganda and trying to overcome that.
I mean I think it could change faster than you’d think.
It used to be nearly impossible to be openly gay and live a normal life. In a relatively short time that has radically changed.
Cultural norms and taboos are not as permanent as they seem in the moment.
You envision the average American as an amalgamation of the various strains of thought in America averaged into one, but that’s not the case. People vary wildly in reception to Socialism, and being forthright and honest is important. They have been steadily growing, more rapidly than ever.
No, the historical socialists are dead and buried. You need to engage with the workers where they’re at, and where they’re at is “brainwashed by tears of anti communist propaganda to the point of pavlovian triggers”. Imo the least you can do is not use those specific words front and center.
And I am telling you that this is becoming more and more a distant past. No, your average worker isn’t going to like the sound of communism, but over time approval for it has shifted dramatically.
I applied a while back to no response. Although the nearest chapter is 2 hours away to be fair. They do great work though from what I hear.
If it was during COVID, I have been informed by current members that they had a bunch of issues and have since rectified the application process. If you are still interested, I have been told the best thing is to re-apply, if you don’t get a response this time then it’s safe to drop it.
Or, now hear me out, Socialism.
Absolutely. Just don’t use that word. The propaganda is so goddamn ingrained in the American psyche we might as well just call it something else and try to bypass that fight.
Hand companies over to their workers, call it supercapitalism, and Americans will eat that shit up
“Blue collar capitalism”
“true capitalism” or some shit
Disparage actual capitalism for not being capitalist enough, and do an Indiana Jones hot swap for the actual end goal of worker ownership.
The freedom to eat, the freedom to earn a fair day’s pay for a fair day’s honest work, the freedom to afford a house, the freedom from wall street usury, the freedom patriotically build secure and supportive communities, freedom healthcare, protecting the landscape of the greatest country on earth for all of America’s generations to come, etc.
Loads of ways to spin free market socialism, take your pick.
It’s just a branding problem that needs a more modern name for today’s modern voter
Democracy+
Democracy McDemocracyFace
Buddy Democracy
Msilaicos
Ocialismsay
Seriously, don’t use that word haha. We don’t need another “Red Scare”
The Red Scare never ended, it’s important to directly combat anti-socialist sentiment because you are going to be labeled a Communist even if you call yourself a mild progressive.
Or rebrand socialism and push it in a more efficient way.
Why rebrand what already exists? What way would be more “efficient?”
I don’t agree on your tanky communism, ML. Go away
What’s wrong with Marxism?
Rebrand it as patriotism.
No. MAGA Communism and Patriotic Socialists already exist, and have far more in common with the Nazis due to taking a Nationalist stance in an Imperialist country.
Haha, yes. Make it full on ‘Merica Dream! But then it’s just plain ole socialism.
On the contrary, we should use the words Socialism and Communism loudly and proudly. The less stigamtized these words are the easier the fight for progress.
Absolutely. I have an introductory Marxist reading list if you want to check it out.
I think its time to deconstruct it tbh. Name’s tainted and “neither” has been the most popular candidate for the past 3 election cycles now. People are itching for a new party to support that doesn’t make them feel like their vote is worthless
This would imply years of (effectively) being out of power. Even if by some miracle you would win the presidential election, you would have no local infrastructure to build on. It would give the GOP effective power in many states for an another decade.
On the other hand, look at how easy it was for Trump to completely hijack the GOP. That’s the model you should aim for.
On the other hand, look at how easy it was for Trump to completely hijack the GOP. That’s the model you should aim for.
That’s what I’ve been saying for a while now.
Seriously why are we continuing with the same party that supported slavery and has been on doing the bare minimum to help people for the last 50 years.
It’s pretty stupid to base your support of a party on what it used to be, not what it is now.
Using your logic, you support the GOP because they elected Lincoln and ended slavery, right? It’s not like there’s been 160 years of history that might have changed it since, including things like the Southern Strategy and the “Moral Majority”, right?
I know people who say they support the Republicans because of that un-sarcastically. Soo logic isn’t the strong suit of a majority of voters I think.
Slavery, segregation, the Dixiecrats, the Democratic Party wasn’t even the “good” one for most of the time it’s been around (and arguably wasn’t even even definitely “the” good one until like 40 years ago.
Good. A party that is not beholden to its constituents has no business running for office.
Not to be cheeky, but the DNC has a business in running for office, and is beholden to its constituents, it’s just that its constituents are the wealthy Capitalists that donate to the DNC and essentially buy policy, not the working class.
How would that even work? They are doing exactly what their
ownersdonors want.Are they saying that rich people should want unions or that there needs to be other ways to fund politics?
Fuck the Democrats.
After that piss poor performance and immediate “we’re going to just do it again” what do they think people are going to bother getting out for?
Run Harris and the same shit again and get fewer votes than last time dipshits I don’t care.
Edit also to clarify I mean the DNC/ party leaders not voters. But fuck me too lol
We need a new party and not the Green Party.
A new one.
Why?
Because that one already failed.
It hasn’t failed, what on Earth are you talking about? They still organize every day and are gaining many new members after the election results.
Are these the same union leaders who backed Trump, because while they’re right about the need for reconstruction, I’d like to exclude any fascists from the effort.
Just assume they are because they want Democrats to change in favor of workers.
I’m always skeptical of any Trump voter who is “pro-worker”. I assume they exclusively support workers who are straight, white, cisgender, and xtian…
Does the article call them trumpers, or do you just assume that about anyone who wants the party to change?
The leader of the Teamsters Union spoke at the modern day Nüremberg rally known as the RNC.
While a lot of tribalist Democrats tend to equate any criticism of Dem leadership with trumpism, that might not be what’s happening this time 🤷
The leader of the Teamsters Union spoke at the modern day Nüremberg rally known as the RNC.
He is not the subject of the article.
Todd evidently didn’t know whether or not he was, is what I’m saying
Sure looks like he assumed it was.
