I remember when you had to use this newfangled “kernel module” business if you had two Ethernet cards using the same driver, because a non-module driver would only detect one …
shit like this comment thread is why regular people use windows. who the fuck wants to learn about this kind of stuff when you can just point and click? especially when the people who should be helping you post brain-dead self-congratulatory gate-keeping shit like this.
if y’all want people to use linux maybe make it palatable instead of maintaining its difficulty so you can get a chubby about how smart you are
i sort of get them, actually. as a nontech person who shifted to Linux out of necessity, i just wanted it to work.
i dont have to imagine not knowing what a kernel module because i still dont, despite using it for years.
The reason Linux only grew with the Steam Deck is because an operating system only grows if it’s preinstalled on a popular device. Average users do not install their own OS. If you were actually in tune with average users, you would know this. It has nothing to do with Linux users making jokes amongst themselves.
shit like this comment thread is why regular people use windows
No, regular people use Windows because that’s what their device they purchased came with. If they bought a Chromebook instead for example, they’d be using ChromeOS which is based on Linux, and if they bought a Smart TV, it’d probably be running some sort of Linux-based OS as well.
Regular people don’t know or care about Linux, nor what operating system their device is running - they just want a device that’s easy to use, looks good, has a good price and can let them use Facebook, Zoom etc or whatever it is they’re expecting from that device.
who the fuck wants to learn about this kind of stuff when you can just point and click
There’s no need to learn about this stuff, Linux is already just point and click. The main hurdle these days is installing it on a PC, egular people don’t mess around with the OS on their device, they just use whatever it is that came on their device. They shouldn’t have any big issues using Linux (especially if it’s a user-friendly distro like Zorin OS), as long as it’s already installed on their machines.
if y’all want people to use linux maybe make it palatable
It is already palatable, we just haven’t gotten mainstream manufactures to sell preloaded devices to the masses. There are some OEMs like System76 that are doing a good job, but they haven’t hit mass market yet. What Linux needs is a partnership with mainstream manufacturers and some big $$$ invested into marketing, plus partnering with retail outets like Best Buy etc. And maybe have a hardware certification program, like how Windows has the WHQL. Market the hell out of it, pass out shiny “Linux compatible” stickers to vendors, put Linux on sleek and shiny MacBook-like devices, and you’ll find regular people getting into Linux.
also the front page of this very community has multiple posts from people whose systems aren’t working, or who are worried about software being incompatible with linux. it’s still not easy. and Ubuntu came pre-loaded on computers a decade ago and that didn’t really do anything.
this is copium my friend. look at these forums, you don’t find people talking about proselytizing ubuntu and mint, it’s people circlejerking about how cool they are for using kali and arch and knowing whatever minutiae of computing
if y’all want people to use linux maybe make it palatable instead of maintaining its difficulty so you can get a chubby about how smart you are
I wont speak for others but personally, I’m not really interested in point and clickers using linux - there are people who work on mint and ubuntu and stuff for them.
again, personally, i don’t think linux is the right choice for people don’t want to learn some of that and who won’t ever use Command line interface.
I wouldn’t recommend it for them - tbf mostly because I’ve no interest in being tech support for them, just like i didn’t for windows back when i knew how to solve some problems ( type “regedit”).
unless they only have a potato, then i think linux is more likely to fit a decent amount of their needs.
though i would normally say it costs them little more than a few hours to test out a live usb boot system.
but the main point is that the linux community is very diverse, as are all the different distros and projects - so it is not easy to pigeonhole all of them as sharing any one sentiment.
some of the people and distros will be supportive of those users, others won’t.
it’s a bit like most collections of humans in that respect.
You said people wanted to point and click. I agree: I’ve seen many Windows admins VNC to a desktop environment to get to a shell rather than use SSH
So if everything in Linux was accessible from a GUI, would that make it better? Because Windows does similar things, and so does Mac OS. They just use pretty pictures instead of words.
ah, i see now. it’s more about things just working and it being right there
even what distro to choose is already a thing people have to actively research. most people are more interested in just having the thing simply work, than they are having it work in a way that they’ve customized, if that road takes more than minimal effort. i think that the divide is actively growing now, and that the easy access of smartphones and most apps not having much customization is probably part of it.
Things on Windows and Mac rarely just work, especially when you’re talking about kernel extensions. In fact, one of the first things you do when troubleshooting a Mac is to start up without extensions by holding the shift key.
And this is almost entirely the fault of the hardware manufacturers. They could write drivers for Linux that would work as well as their drivers for Windows. They don’t do it, so amateurs have to reverse engineer the hardware and try their best to get it to work.
If, like with Mac and Windows, hardware manufacturers offered actual support for Linux you would not see these issues. The problem isn’t with Linux, it’s with the hardware makers.
I will agree that smartphones have made people know less about how computers actually work while increasing usage. And this is because they’ve obfuscated things to the point where they “simply work” with “minimal effort.” Maybe we should stop doing that.
I think the main trouble makers for consumers are the odd network or bluetooth controllers, especially in laptops, which often come with some exotic bullshit.
I have a lot of trouble with Bluetooth on laptops so I tend to run 2.4GHz wireless peripherals instead of Bluetooth. That’s my only complaint these days.
Some builds can get really tetchy about laptop hardware, but that’s almost always older hardware.
Though I will say it took entirely too long for most builds to have a “change what closing the lid” does menu option rather than making you modify a .conf file.
And don’t get me started on resolution switching when hot swapping display inputs.
Wha? Even a bleeping potato can run Linux nowadays, with zero issues at day 1.
t. Got a Orange pi zero 3, and the lil’ bastard is rocking solid – even with (near zero) support.
Imagine not having all your drivers baked in into your kernel
Imagine not knowing about kernel modules 🤣
I remember when you had to use this newfangled “kernel module” business if you had two Ethernet cards using the same driver, because a non-module driver would only detect one …
shit like this comment thread is why regular people use windows. who the fuck wants to learn about this kind of stuff when you can just point and click? especially when the people who should be helping you post brain-dead self-congratulatory gate-keeping shit like this.
if y’all want people to use linux maybe make it palatable instead of maintaining its difficulty so you can get a chubby about how smart you are
What a weirdly specific thing to get mad about.
i sort of get them, actually. as a nontech person who shifted to Linux out of necessity, i just wanted it to work.
i dont have to imagine not knowing what a kernel module because i still dont, despite using it for years.
I guess I would also be pretty sore if I didn’t have… checks notes - all my drivers baked into my kernel?
A joke about potatoes? You elitists.
@sab @OsrsNeedsF2P @GustavoM @Kidplayer_666 @db2 @AngrilyEatingMuffins @bear I bet these idiots don’t even butter their drivers before baking them into the kernel
smug senses of superiority in the FOSS community?
amazing… no wonder linux use has only grown if you include the steam deck and closed off governmental systems
The reason Linux only grew with the Steam Deck is because an operating system only grows if it’s preinstalled on a popular device. Average users do not install their own OS. If you were actually in tune with average users, you would know this. It has nothing to do with Linux users making jokes amongst themselves.
No, regular people use Windows because that’s what their device they purchased came with. If they bought a Chromebook instead for example, they’d be using ChromeOS which is based on Linux, and if they bought a Smart TV, it’d probably be running some sort of Linux-based OS as well.
Regular people don’t know or care about Linux, nor what operating system their device is running - they just want a device that’s easy to use, looks good, has a good price and can let them use Facebook, Zoom etc or whatever it is they’re expecting from that device.
There’s no need to learn about this stuff, Linux is already just point and click. The main hurdle these days is installing it on a PC, egular people don’t mess around with the OS on their device, they just use whatever it is that came on their device. They shouldn’t have any big issues using Linux (especially if it’s a user-friendly distro like Zorin OS), as long as it’s already installed on their machines.
It is already palatable, we just haven’t gotten mainstream manufactures to sell preloaded devices to the masses. There are some OEMs like System76 that are doing a good job, but they haven’t hit mass market yet. What Linux needs is a partnership with mainstream manufacturers and some big $$$ invested into marketing, plus partnering with retail outets like Best Buy etc. And maybe have a hardware certification program, like how Windows has the WHQL. Market the hell out of it, pass out shiny “Linux compatible” stickers to vendors, put Linux on sleek and shiny MacBook-like devices, and you’ll find regular people getting into Linux.
also the front page of this very community has multiple posts from people whose systems aren’t working, or who are worried about software being incompatible with linux. it’s still not easy. and Ubuntu came pre-loaded on computers a decade ago and that didn’t really do anything.
this is copium my friend. look at these forums, you don’t find people talking about proselytizing ubuntu and mint, it’s people circlejerking about how cool they are for using kali and arch and knowing whatever minutiae of computing
You might need another muffin. You’re a little hangry.
another smug message! surprise
god forbid i actually want people to use FOSS
You could try not being a dick. Just a thought.
Edit: after seeing your other comments it’s pretty clear you’re a troll.
I’d say the same to you
pretty telling that the community takes criticism of gatekeeping superiority complexes as being equivalent to trolling
Nah I’m just going to go ahead and block you for douchebaggery. Good luck getting anyone to like having you around.
I wont speak for others but personally, I’m not really interested in point and clickers using linux - there are people who work on mint and ubuntu and stuff for them.
again, personally, i don’t think linux is the right choice for people don’t want to learn some of that and who won’t ever use Command line interface.
I wouldn’t recommend it for them - tbf mostly because I’ve no interest in being tech support for them, just like i didn’t for windows back when i knew how to solve some problems ( type “regedit”).
unless they only have a potato, then i think linux is more likely to fit a decent amount of their needs.
though i would normally say it costs them little more than a few hours to test out a live usb boot system.
but the main point is that the linux community is very diverse, as are all the different distros and projects - so it is not easy to pigeonhole all of them as sharing any one sentiment.
some of the people and distros will be supportive of those users, others won’t.
it’s a bit like most collections of humans in that respect.
If someone made a GUI to handle kernel modules and people could point and click through them, would that be okay?
that really doesn’t have anything to do with what i’m talking about.
You said people wanted to point and click. I agree: I’ve seen many Windows admins VNC to a desktop environment to get to a shell rather than use SSH
So if everything in Linux was accessible from a GUI, would that make it better? Because Windows does similar things, and so does Mac OS. They just use pretty pictures instead of words.
ah, i see now. it’s more about things just working and it being right there
even what distro to choose is already a thing people have to actively research. most people are more interested in just having the thing simply work, than they are having it work in a way that they’ve customized, if that road takes more than minimal effort. i think that the divide is actively growing now, and that the easy access of smartphones and most apps not having much customization is probably part of it.
Things on Windows and Mac rarely just work, especially when you’re talking about kernel extensions. In fact, one of the first things you do when troubleshooting a Mac is to start up without extensions by holding the shift key.
And this is almost entirely the fault of the hardware manufacturers. They could write drivers for Linux that would work as well as their drivers for Windows. They don’t do it, so amateurs have to reverse engineer the hardware and try their best to get it to work.
If, like with Mac and Windows, hardware manufacturers offered actual support for Linux you would not see these issues. The problem isn’t with Linux, it’s with the hardware makers.
I will agree that smartphones have made people know less about how computers actually work while increasing usage. And this is because they’ve obfuscated things to the point where they “simply work” with “minimal effort.” Maybe we should stop doing that.
I think the main trouble makers for consumers are the odd network or bluetooth controllers, especially in laptops, which often come with some exotic bullshit.
I have a lot of trouble with Bluetooth on laptops so I tend to run 2.4GHz wireless peripherals instead of Bluetooth. That’s my only complaint these days.
Imagine being in the orange forum and thinking everybody’s using Mac…
Some builds can get really tetchy about laptop hardware, but that’s almost always older hardware.
Though I will say it took entirely too long for most builds to have a “change what closing the lid” does menu option rather than making you modify a .conf file.
And don’t get me started on resolution switching when hot swapping display inputs.