• gomp@lemmy.ml
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            5 months ago

            Most newbies would have a hard time and most experienced people would grab the “unofficial” non-free image for installing just in case and then disable non-free if it wasn’t needed.

            I’ve not verified this, but does the installer actually install the non-free firmware if it’s not needed?

            • pmk@lemmy.sdf.org
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              5 months ago

              New users found it hard to download the right installer if they needed non-free firmware. Experienced users know they can add firmware=never in the installer to disable firmware lookup if they want. If they want to decide on a firmware by firmware basis, that’s an option too. If the hardware doesn’t need non-free firmware it’s not installed.

            • mholiv@lemmy.world
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              5 months ago

              I know “Enshittification” is the Lemmy word of the year but you can’t just call everything you don’t like enshittification.

              This clearly isn’t it.

              • GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml
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                5 months ago

                Well probably idk. It’s at least laziness of devs that decided not to add an opt-out toggle. But that’s already enshittification to some degree

                • mholiv@lemmy.world
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                  5 months ago

                  I get not being a fan but no toggle switch. But in this case it literally isn’t “enshittification”. Is it anti choice? Yes. Is it enshittification? No. Enshittification does not just mean “thing I don’t like”.

                  Here is a quote that describes what enshittification is:

                  Here is how platforms die: first, they are good to their users; then they abuse their users to make things better for their business customers; finally, they abuse those business customers to claw back all the value for themselves. Then, they die. I call this enshittification, and it is a seemingly inevitable consequence arising from the combination of the ease of changing how a platform allocates value, combined with the nature of a “two sided market”, where a platform sits between buyers and sellers, hold each hostage to the other, raking off an ever-larger share of the value that passes between them.

                  More info can be found here. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enshittification

                  • LeFantome@programming.dev
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                    5 months ago

                    Well, there is actually. You just have to be knowledgable enough to use it. What I am unclear on is why so many die hard “no non-free firmware” advocates have hardware that requires non-free firmware.

                    I am assuming the problem is that people have hardware that will cause non-free firmware to be downloaded and installed against their wishes. Because, if they do not own such hardware, no non-free firmware will be installed and therefore I do not see a problem. Unless of course what bothers people is that others are able to easily install a working system. I would not want to accuse anybody of such bad behaviour.

                    Insisting on worse experiences on others to further your own politics is not politics I personally support.

                    You know what probably pisses other people off? Finally deciding to install Debian and then finding that it does not run on their hardware.