I think a lot of people here don’t understand the danger of this fully and dismiss it with “Just use Firefox, problem solved”.
Unfortunately, once this becomes widely available, that is once Chrome ships it, websites will start to use it.
Maybe Amazon will just not sell to you anymore when you’re browsing with Firefox?
Maybe YouTube wont serve any videos if you’re using Linux?
Your bank will certainly implement this and only allow Windows 11 with Edge or some shit like that.
Once this is implemented, we will all suffer, even if we’re using better alternatives right now.I wonder if that would be a valid anti trust violition ?
If we lived in a sane country all 4 major tech companies would have already been brought to court over this in like, 2016. (Microsoft for the second time…)
To be fair to America, I don’t think there are any sane countries left. Finland had an actual neo-Nazi as minister and while it didn’t last longer than Truss or even half of it, the party that is ministerial party is still there with similar ideas. They just had forethought to not write 14/88 in an old electoral ad. We are tied for first place still in the least corrupt countries and 5th in most democratic countries.
Technically the idea is that if Chrome has barely any market share (will never happen, but let’s pretend), they cannot implement this as it will anger and lock too many users out of day to day life.
However…
With Google Search and YouTube being by far the most 2 popular websites in the world, I think they still could. The vast majority of people would never give those up and if they’re told to use another program to access them, they absolutely will, meaning in an ideal world with a browser competition, they can easily destroy it immediately.
Google search has become very bad and is easily replaced by basically any search engine. YouTube is still unparalleled though.
Would apple just roll over on this? Or would they fight to make sure safari is also an option to freely use the internet (or at least severely limiting apples ability to do something similar) And websites that depend on ads, the number of Firefox and safari users have to be greater than the number of users who use ad-blockers. So wouldn’t it negatively affect ad income on websites if they implemented it and cut out all non-chromium browsers?
I think apple would figure out some very creative ways to fuck it’s customers, some more.
Encourage Apple’s WebKit to oppose it.
It’s IE6 all over again.
Doesn’t that also mean they lose customers or possible transactions which could have made them money?
Did Firefox even say that they would not implement it as well? Are there any informations on that?
They said they would not: https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/852
Just use Firefox, Mozilla already put their stance forward as opposing this garbage
Firefox is faster than chrome anyway nowadays.
Nowadays? I think you mean since always :)
That may be true on desktop. But, unfortunately, the mobile app is way behind chromium. From being unresponsive, to outright buggy. It’s not a good experince. It’s been 2 years since the rewrite but it’s not getting much better or even close to fixing most of its issue. Meaning, using firefox on android is a handicap on yourself.
Gonna need some statistics on this, because your anecdotal experience is not at all like mine. FF is totally useable on Android.
I have used Firefox on many smartphones since 2014. It’s not an anecdotal experience of mine. It’s the difference between chromium based browsers on android being more efficient compared to Firefox. Here’s the github issue which was open from 2020, now moved to Bugzilla: https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/fenix/issues/12731#event-8105829420
If this did not happen it would not have been kept open for so long. Just search tab reload in closed issues you will people still complaining while the repo was accessible.
Bugzilla issue from 2 years ago: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1752594
The migrated issue from github: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1807364
Thanks for the concrete reply! I assume if this bug is affecting me it’s just not enough of an issue to be noticable on my hardware (Pixel 5)
I use it because I can use it to block ads. If a page doesn’t work, I’ll use chrome.
I actually use Chrome on Windows. I just dislike ads more than I like Chrome.
I am basically the same. I’m loving the ability to use uBlock Origin across phone and desktop and practically never see ads, but some sites just don’t work for me in Firefox. Like anything where I have signed up with my Google account, or my online banking. In which case I have Chrome installed as a backup. If I could purge it completely I would, but this works for now.
Ive used FF on my android phone for years and had no noteworthy issues the entire time, not sure what youre on about
I’m talking about the tab reload issue. Check my reply to other comment. Where I link issues. Basically you cannot fill forms, multi task or do stuff without the tab reloading on you. This issue has been ongoing since 2020. I changed phones but this issue did not change once. Permalink to that comment: https://lemmy.ml/comment/2013238
Ive never had any issue like that to be honest, and I have been using FF literally daily for years. Most of my social circle are yucky apple product users so I haven’t even heard of this issue until now. Im sorry you and other people have it because tbh FF is basically perfect, at least for what I need it for
Thanks for acknowledging the issue. I’m on android which could make some difference. I install Firefox with ublock origin as good adblocking solution for others. Most do not appear to notice this issue so it’s not a problem. Hopefully, it’s fixed for the ones experiencing this issue.
That has not been my experience with FF on mobile and my phone is a few years old
Honestly I see smartphones as a downgrade to computers in general. If I want something done digitally, I’ll always prefer doing it on a PC.
As someone who has used Firefox on Android for 9 years plus… “lol, wut?!”
It was bad, 7 years ago, and has been solid for at least 4 years.
Are you kidding?! Firefox on android isn’t just better than Chrome in feature set, as it has been for like a decade, it’s been faster than Chrome for at least a year, in my personal experience.
Yeah, to be honest the FF Android experience just can’t match Chromium.
I don’t really NEED to, so I’m not switching from Firefox anytime soon, but I wish they’d at least fix recently closed tabs reappearing every time I reopen the darned thing…
For the millionth time, Stallman was right.
Yep, you send me html, my browser can interpret it any way that I want it to. If I want to ignore all of the image and script tags, I can. I don’t need Chrome or even Chromium. As Stallman says, you should know what is running on your system.
We need to go back to html and css. Using an ad blocker and noscript literally breaks webpages. I just want to read the article! You know the content ppl actually come for
It’s such a bizarre situation. Either you heavily limit Javascript and basically destroy all web apps or you embrace it and get laughably slow websites with walls of ads that beg you to log in to actually view the page. Like if you look into it, it’s genuinely shocking how much software is a web browser running JS under the hood.
But how is all the bloat going to get to you then? HTML with some images is equally functional and loads in a fraction of the time, because it is actually efficient. Nobody could want that could they?
How the fuck are people using the internet without an adblocker?
It is pracitcally impossible to differentiate content from ads. And i was just talking about all the bloat without the ads. Thank you for sharing this, i never thought it’d be this bad.
I can see legitimate uses for java script, like popping out a menu. But it seriously needs its capabilities restricted.
You can pop out menus with CSS.
needs its capabilities restricted
This is a bad take. How are you gonna do that? Force ECMA to scrap all the functionality deemed ‘bad’? Wave a magic tech wand? At the end of the day JS is a tool, and like any tool it can be abused for nefarious purposes. The issue is that advertisers abuse this tool, and the sites they pay to be shown on allow it. Not because insert scripting language exists.
It just occured to me that I wonder how a text browser addresses all this
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/07/25/voters-progressive-trump-harvard-youth-poll-gop/
Just tried it on browsor
That doesn’t mean his strategy and approach is good.
That doesn’t mean his strstegy and approach is good.
Who cares? Whether or not Stallman is a likeable person isn’t what’s important. His ideas are.
The way he presents them and approaches certain subjects is what’s offputting. He’s got this black and white atitude towards the world and how things work, when in reality, everything is just a shade of gray.
Could you give an example?
He says IoT devices are bad. He says most Linux distros are bad just cuz they don’t use everything GPL licensed in them. Says don’t use this, don’t use that, yet the alternatives to what he proposes are… just no usable in the 21st century. Read pages in plain HTML, yeah right 😒.
It’s the lingo he uses, he marks everything as bad, except for GNU or GPL licensed software. And that is off putting to most people and is why many new projects don’t even use the GPL any more, they use MIT or BSD quite more often. The complete lack of any legal support for GPL projects from the FSF is also another reason. “There are just too many, we don’t have enough lawers”. Have you ever thought about, IDK, paying those people? Like you win one lawsuit, make a deal with the owner of the licensed work for him/her to invest part of the winning over to the FSF in order to actually pay these lawers and other people involved in the process. Do the same with every case, and you have yourself a sustainable system. No one wins this way, except those who infrindged the GPL license.
My 2 cents… doesn’t mean that I’m right, but these are one of my personal reasons why I steer away from the FSF and RMS. These people are stuck in bitterness and grudges, no real insentive to offer a viable alternative whatsoever. It’s like the Pale Moon project, except PM is much worse.
That’s the price of internal consistency. Nothing you say is an argument against any of his points, you just don’t want to give up the comforts you’ve gotten used to over the last decades. I get it, I don’t want to either, but our lack of commitment is precisely why companies are able to abuse users so freely.
He’s not giving viable alternatives! He just says “don’t use this, don’t do that”. That’s not constructive at all, just the opposite.
Times have changed, people change, technology changes. I was against using a smart device up until about 3 or 4 years ago, until I realized how way way behind I was behind everyone and how practical it can be. While everyone was just carrying around their phone and took pics of things that they needed to remember, I had to do the same with a camera… not to mention I had to remember to bring it with me every time I might need it (and you can’t always know upfront if you’re gonna need it or not). On the other hand, my phone is always with me, regardless if I need a camera or not.
This is just an example, there are so many other examples that make life easier. RMS and the FSF has nothing to offer, nothing to put on the table as a viable alternative, except “don’t use that”. They could have so much money flowing into the FSF just by copyright lawsuits, they could practically be swimming in money, but no, they decide to do everything on a volentary basis. You can’t win if the playing field is always tilted towards the corps. You can only win if you play with their rules, and their rules are, invest money! They can have enough money to invest in devs as well, devs that will probably make a viable alternative of an OS to actually run on phones and be completely open sources, but… no, that’s against their practices and beliefs 😒.
Well, I’m sorry but, you don’t offer anything, just forbid things. Maybe I really don’t want to use this or that technology, but it makes my life easier, so I’d rather use it than not 🤷. Saying “don’t do this, don’t do that” is the exact same mentality that PM has regarding stuff that doesn’t work with the browser. “Just don’t visit those sites”. What? It’s a browser, it fails at it’s primary purpose, to browse websites. I’m sorry, but that is unacceptable. When your product doesn’t fulfill it’s primary purpose and your only reaction is “just don’t do that”, you need to seriously rethink what you’re doing and in which direction this project is going.
Stop using chrome. Yes brave is chrome
@nicman24 firefox is not chromium…
Gecko, the underlying engine behind Firefox, is an entirely different code base from Chromium
Removed by mod
I think he means Firefox is not Chromium-based; Chrome is a proprietary code base, no one can access it besides internal Google employees. Chromium, on the other hand, is open source, and is what browsers such as Edge, Brave and Opera are based off of. Chrome is also based off Chromium, it’s the closed source browser Google distributes. Think of Chromium as Android, and the Pixel UI as Chrome. So no, I doubt he means Firefox is Chrome.
Edit: seeing from the other comments, downvotes, and that the comment has been edited, he most likely made a typo and typed “Firefox is chromium.”
Edit 2: Mistakenly said that Chromium was what Firefox was based off of when I meant to say Brave. My bad. I’m well aware Firefox isn’t Chromium-based(I use it for that reason), I was just confused as to why this person was saying he meant Firefox was Chrome, when the comment read “firefox is not chromium”. I later realized(in the above edit) that they must have written “firefox is chromium”, before editing it to “firefox is not chromium” after realizing he messed the comment up.
Incorrect dukk. Firefox isn’t built on Chromium, Firefox predates google let alone Google chromium.
I’m not saying Firefox uses Chromium? I specifically said that Firefox ISN’T based off Chrome/Chromium.
Edit: Never mind, I see that I messed up the post.
But you left it up like a real OG, respect.
Firefox is the only major browser standing today that’s not based on Chromium, so you’re right there.
Firefox does not predate Google. Firefox is a descendant of Mozilla, which started as a broken chunk of quickly open sourced Netscape Navigator 4.0 code. Netscape’s engineers ripped out everything they didn’t hold a license to and dumped it raw (and uncompilable) on the web for the OSS community to rebuild. This happed just before Netscape was finished being acquired by AOL.
AOL did rebrand Netscape Navigator as AOL Browser, but it didn’t gain any significant market share.
Google was founded about the same time (about two years later) as Netscape Navigator was released. So, you can either say Firefox’s history is older than Google or the actual Firefox project is younger than Google.
In February 1998, approximately one year prior to its acquisition by AOL, Netscape released the source code for its browser and created the Mozilla Organization
Google Founded September 4, 1998
Mozilla, Gecko and what everyone now commonly refers to as Firefox predates Google.
Edit: you’re technically correct of course, however I wasn’t about to complicate my reply with Netscape, Mozilla and Gecko history when the OP I was replying to was saying Firefox was built on Google Chromium.
We’re all technically correct so far. Since that’s the best kind of correct I say we high five and enjoy reveling in our knowledge of nerddom history.
Nope. Firefox doesn’t use Chromium at all. It’s based on Gecko, an entirely different codebase that predates chromium.
Firefox doesn’t use chromium. It uses Gecko, which is an entirely separate codebase.
Firefox uses their own engine IIRC, that’s why more people should be using it so we can get some competition with Chromium.
I think the management’s recent decisions, as well as the removal/lack of power-user features for those users, have moved a lot of people away from Firefox, myself included. They really need to focus on providing really good software, not get caught up in trying to chase trends or forcing services people don’t want. This WIRED article does a good job explaining the issues.
I am keeping an eye on Pulse Browser, which is an experimental fork of Firefox with uBlock Origin pre-installed and some UI customisations. They’ve got a sidebar with “web panels” very much like Vivaldi’s Panels, and they’ve got vertical tabs like Edge. People also seem to be posting suggestions to their discussion page on GitHub. It’s early days, but if they listen and try to implement some of the suggested features to their best ability, it could be a much better Firefox than Firefox itself.
Yeah but if you dont support Mozilla Firefox the project will run out of resources and only one engine will be left chromium.
Oh, I support Gecko. More browser engines to compete against Chromium the better. I just can’t support Firefox in its current state right now. Thankfully, Pulse seems to be picking up the slack in places.
Thank you for mentioning a *fork of a non-chromium browser with vertical tabs, genuinely something FF would benefit from.
No problem! Tree Style Tabs might also do the job on base Firefox with nested tabs, but it’s not as streamlined as Pulse or Edge, especially if you want to hide the tab bar (you have to edit .CSS files).
edit: okay enabling both features, moving the main side panel to the right and enable tab collapsing makes a great space-saving setup.
edit 2: now i’m using pulse as my main browser
Ikr
But that’s also not private as has been claimed as a reason to go FF. The only reason to use FF is only to not use chrome. Not for all the reasons that chrome is bad.
Tor Browser, LibreWolf, and Arkenfox JS are the most secure and private browsers you can get and they’re all based on Firefox. If they’re not private enough for you, I don’t know what is
Like, seriously, went through the last 10 years spending a good chunk of my day on Twitter and Reddit using Chrome, and suddenly I’m on Lemmy/Mastodon on Firefox.
Firefox’s been better since Quantum.
It feels like much much faster than Chrome, not gonna lie.
And ram efficient
That is only because it doesn’t keep all tabs loaded in RAM all of the time though.
If you open the same pages with the same installed extensions on both you will see similar RAM usage. It is only on restoring sessions or longer-term sessions that you will see a difference because FF will reload the page when it is activated again where chrome will keep it in RAM.
At least that used to be the case.
I mean yes, that’s the main reason, but that doesn’t make it any less true. I like being able to have a couple extra tabs open just to have them there, not having them to use up resources seems kind of like a given.
This is my exact change. They want to shittify things I’ll switch or just stop using it. I’m at my breaking point.
Eerily feels like I wrote that comment.
Seriously… my oldest account on Reddit was 12 years old. I’ve been through so many changes that turned me off, but the API stuff was the last blow, and the CEO’s love for Elon Musk just sealed the deal.
Did not hear about that. He sucks, but Elmo sucks more.
Elmo sucks?
Lol I think he meant Elon.
Add me to the list with a side of furiously searching for security and privacy of cloud storage services and figuring out which Linux I want to use. I’m shaking my head at how complacent I got with my services. I always do my due diligence when starting to use anything but I somehow forgot to keep up in the past couple of years.
Do you miss anything?
I won’t lie that it’s been an adjustment. Old habits die hard. Reddit is the one that I am more certainly done with. No one is on Mastodon yet so I do browse Twitter a little bit to get updates on the stuff I like, but don’t interact there anymore.
I miss a lot of my niche content
Well, best thing to counter that is to be the change you want to see. Start the community for the niche you miss the most/know the most about. Post something daily for two weeks + do a call for mods, and before you know you’ll have at least some activity. I (helped) to bootstrap [email protected] this way, and the community has about 1 top level post per day on average now. Not a lot, but a good start.
One more time if anyone says that capitalism breeds innovation we need to show them this ¡!
This is innovation though, an internet wide DRM would be quite an impressive technical feat. It’s just not innovation built to benefit you and me, it’s built to benefit Google’s true customers, advertisers
Yeah… They find innovative ways to milk us of our money and attention and annoy the heck out of everyone
Oh almost like if in capitalism they didn’t say that oligarchys are a problem. What we needed is to send these giants down.
That would prove difficult considering money rules, you can make people do you bidding, make them disappear and suffer little to no consequences.
So what we needed is a decent anti-monopoly, anti-oligarchy force.
Just like when the us gov dismantled AT&T into thousands of smaller different cervices and that created things like mobile rputhers and etc.
Soo the, Google at this point is putting down more inovatjon that he is bringing it to the table.
Problem is not capitalism, it’s all that power centered in the same place. Almost like a dictatorship.
Well that was when anti trust laws actually worked ! Alphabet , meta etc are literally sucking americans poor. Still we dont see anything !
Tbh as a Climat activist who grew up surrounded by deniers …yhe… the feeling of hopeless is strong. But hey I have been seeing slow and gradual change, when things are getting bad.
At least in your scenario (at the moment) when they go down we might be able to reverse the worse consequences. Unlike climate where we probably just fucked.
Our planet has had good and bad climates , but humans have fucked it intentionally and there seems to be nor reluctance or remorse in the rich to fuck it even more , it will probably end in jeopardising human life , mostly the poor will suffer and die , but i am quite sure that planet will find ways to recover ! Once the humans are gone !
Oh for fuck sake, yes when I say planet I mean the delicate ecosystem that supports all life. See even better I still get downvoated by shit heads
The problem isn’t capitalism, it’s just the system that allows power to be centralized through market forces and used to bribe regulatory bodies. Oh wait…
Shit man I would love to hear how you would stop power concentration in communism or any other form of government…
I mean, it’s all innovation in some way… Just all anti-consumer.
So you want government to do this?
Anarchy please
“What’s internet? It it like Googlenet but worse?”
-Some kid in the future
Does anyone else think that maybe this may cause a shift back to times before internet
Honestly, reddits API change was an awful thing to do but my phone usage has plummeted since then. I’ve been trying Lemmy but it’s not been an easy 1:1 replacement and I find myself not engaging or feeling so invested in conversations and content as much.
That works in my favor, though, because I really have been spending way too much time looking at screens anyway.
Most corporate media tries to get you to spend too much time on their apps/sites. Getting on the fediverse felt like moving on from a toxic ex.
We’ll make out own internet! With blackjack and hookers!
You know what, forget the internet!
You jest but I’m feeling pretty ready to switch to mesh networking. I’d rather have a libre internet than faster bandwidth.
Reddit don’t have IPA on tap anymore?
I don’t want their IPA, I want my Ruby Beer
Google in 2004: don’t be evil Google in 2023: turns into Dr. Evil
Something-something die as a hero or become the villain.
Now we can scream that they’re truly evil
Plus the paid streaming services adding ads back in and they are all the SAME fucking ads?
🎶 Do what you want because a pirate is a free, you are a pirate! 🎶
Ngl I am so done with streaming services asking for device specs and blocking things on my devices that I pirate stuff anyway !
I just dusted off my pirate flag, the rising costs of everything has made it impossible for me to do the legal thing.
I’ll start my journey sailing the vast sees upcoming weekend.
DRM is stupid because it interferes with paying customers and isn’t effective. If there’s a will there’s a way
I guess we have to get a subscription on top of our monthly internet bill to use the internet.
Can’t wait to have to subscribe to everything and they’ll still sell my data
Not one-for-one, but the BBC actually wanted to put a tax on broadband bills in response to the resentment towards the TV License.
*loicense
Maybe there wouldn’t be so much resentment if they didn’t send you threatening letters despite not using the service?
It’s also stupid because it’s encryption but Bob and Eve are the same person.
Honestly this is just depressing. And a little scary ?
Corporate greed is taking new heights and the things we took for granted are being taken away. It is all so dystopic…
Yeet.
Ah yes, 2023. The year I wore a pirate hat and touched more grass. Soon they’ll be bribing the govt to make going outside illegal.
Soon they’ll be bribing the govt to make going outside illegal.
That was 2020
Oh don’t worry, it’s poisoned and the animals are gone. Once the heat bakes off the greenery, there will be no reason at all to go out there except to get to your car
