If you don’t, no need to reply telling me you don’t. I live in the woods with some critters. I live pretty far from neighbors/police so having a gun gives me peace of mind. I also hunt and consider myself a gun hobbiest. I enjoy shooting targets, cleaning/organizing, reloading and earning food with guns.
Want.
Lifelong anti-gun libtard here.
I think guns are primarily for people who fear. I think fear is the primary motivator for firearm ownership. I would like to live in a society where fear doesn’t push people to own firearms. That is not our reality. That is not the society we live in.
There are masked, unqualified paramilitary federal goons entering our communities and harassing and assaulting AMERICAN CITIZENS. I passed my history classes. I enjoy reading up on history in my own personal time. I know where things like this often lead, and I’ve come to accept that it’s time to arm myself. A significant portion of our populace also supports what is happening and would be perfectly fine with people like myself, who want everyone to have healthcare, a good education, and to be fed, being “removed” from this plane of existence. These people are everywhere. I understand that they are not actively going out and killing people like me, but they are voting to persecute and harm people like me and the people I care about.
That’s enough for me to arm myself out of fear.
I don’t believe this to be a good society. I don’t believe this to be an intelligent society. I don’t believe this to be a safe society going forward.
I haven’t purchased a firearm yet, but I’ve been out shooting with friends a number of times and I’ve been asking questions to get ready for the process of acquiring at least one.
Liberal-libertarian here- I think the married gay couple should have AR15s to defend their marijuana crop and adopted children from attack, confident in the knowledge that single payer healthcare will be there if they get hurt.
I also follow history, at least a little. And I think even a light perusal of the last 100ish years should be enough to show anyone that ‘it can’t happen here’ / ‘it won’t happen here’ are foolish attitudes, as the current situations are demonstrating.
I’m curious if you regret your past support of anti-gun policies, knowing that they are directly making it harder for you to acquire a gun for self-defense today?
And FWIW if you have any gun questions or want to know anything about specific guns, safety, culture, etc please feel free to reply or DM me.
I’m curious if you regret your past support of anti-gun policies
Not really.
I’d prefer to live in a society that doesn’t perpetuate enough fear to cause people to desire firearms for self defense. Those societies do exist. And 10+ years ago things weren’t as they are now in America. The situation has degraded. We could have gone down another path that could have led to less fear and gun ownership, but that’s not the future we chose for ourselves.
So I’ve had to shift my expectations. That’s why I don’t really regret advocating against guns in the past. I still don’t like them. I still think more guns will cause more problems. But our society is becoming more ignorant and our decisions are going to lead to more people being more destitute and more desperate, which will increase crime, as political violence also increases, so the bottom line is you have to protect yourself.
I’d prefer to live in a society where no guns are ever needed.
The problem is, you can’t predict the future.I’d prefer to live in a society that doesn’t perpetuate enough fear to cause people to desire firearms for self defense. Those societies do exist. And 10+ years ago things weren’t as they are now in America. The situation has degraded. We could have gone down another path that could have led to less fear and gun ownership, but that’s not the future we chose for ourselves.
But that’s my point. 10+ years ago, you wouldn’t have predicted this. 10+ years ago, you’d have fought to restrict or remove gun rights. And now here we are, if you and those like you had succeeded, you wouldn’t be able to buy a gun.
That’s why I think gun rights (including yours) are so important, and why I hope you (someday) regret your previous anti-gun advocacy. Because however great our society is at any point in time, it can always get bad again. And the question is when that happens, do we want to have proverbially shot ourselves in the foot by removing our own means of self-defense? I say no.
Thus, if I may be a bit silly, an image for when you go into the gun store and have the right to buy that gun:
:D
I would argue that the ideal is a society where guns are readily available, but rarely needed. Might you agree with that?
For me firearm ownership is about responsibility and independence. If you’re going to eat meat, you should participate in the process and understand what it means. If you don’t trust the state with a monopoly on violence, you should be a part of distributing that power as widely as possible. Guns are one of the most powerful tools in the modern world, and I value them for the same reasons I value my drill or computer: they expand my capabilities.
I have no need for a gun. I live in a civilized country.
You missed the part where I said if NO you don’t need to reply. Glad you got to pretend you’re better than me though.
Switzerland has entered the chat
You are aware that, while there a lot of guns in Switzerland, most of them are under lock and key and without ammo? That they are not for “fun shooting”, but issued by the military to reservists for military use only?
I read your comment here and decided to verify what I know about this by going out and reading actual sources.
Based on many multiple sources, I do not agree with the heart of your argument here and I would recommend you read up on gun regulation, culture, and sport as it pertains to Switzerland.
While it may be technically correct that most firearms there are as you say (I could not find a source stating that), it does not mean there is not a highly permissive gun culture in Switzerland with a lot of private ownership.
People in Switzerland can relatively easily obtain and use firearms for the purpose of sport, including for those who are not from Switzerland and do not have permanent residence, and firearm sport is extremely popular there.
Children can also be lent firearms there for sport shooting.
Note that they have the largest rifle shooting competition in the world.
Note that while minors can’t acquire firearms, they can be lent firearms by their shooting club or legal representative and the firearm is registered in their name for the duration of lending, and then they can both transport and use it alone.
That does not sound like a country where guns are not used for “fun shooting” to me.
If you can produce citations for your claim, that would be great. Here are mine.
https://world.time.com/2012/12/20/the-swiss-difference-a-gun-culture-that-works/
https://www.npr.org/2013/03/19/174758723/facing-switzerland-gun-culture
Switzerland has a strong gun culture compared to other countries in the world. Recreational shooting is widespread in Switzerland. Practice with guns is a popular form of recreation, and is encouraged by the government, particularly for the members of the militia.
Additionally, the Schweizerischer Schützenverein, a Swiss shooting association, organizes the Eidgenössische Schützenfeste, every five years and the Eidgenössisches Feldschiessen is held annually. Every person with Swiss citizenship, aged 10 years or older, can take part at any federal ranges and will be able to shoot for free with the ordinance rifle. Before the turn of the century, about 200,000 people used to attend the annual Eidgenössisches Feldschiessen, which is the largest rifle shooting competition in the world. In 2012 they counted 130,000 participants.
https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/cc/1998/2535_2535_2535/en#art_11_a
While minors can’t acquire firearms, they can be lent firearms by their shooting club or their legal representative. The firearm is then registered to their name for the duration of the lending and they can then transport and use it alone.
https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/cc/2008/767/de
Firearms regulation in Switzerland allows the acquisition of semi-automatic, and – with a may-issue permit – fully automatic firearms, by Swiss citizens and foreigners with or without permanent residence.
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/02/swiss-guns/553448/
The laws pertaining to the acquisition of firearms in Switzerland are amongst the most liberal in the world, as well as being the most permissive in Europe.
https://www.fedpol.admin.ch/fedpol/en/home/sicherheit/waffen/waffenerwerb.html
Swiss gun laws are primarily about the acquisition of arms, and not ownership. As such a license is not required to own a gun by itself, but a shall-issue permit is required to purchase most types of firearms. Bolt-action rifles, break-actions and hunting rifles do not require an acquisition permit, and can be acquired with just a record extract.
Julie Hartley-Moore, “The Song of Gryon: Political Ritual, Local Identity, and the Consolidation of Nationalism in Multiethnic Switzerland”, Journal of American Folklore 120.476 (2007) 204–229, citing Kohn Hans Kohn, Nationalism and Liberty: The Swiss Example. London: George Allen and Unwin, 1956, p. 78.
https://www.rts.ch/info/suisse/1052760-chacun-peut-deposer-son-arme-a-larsenal-des-2010.html
Swiss gun culture has emerged from a long tradition of shooting, which served as a formative element of national identity in the post-Napoleonic Restoration of the Confederacy, and the long-standing practice of a militia organization of the Swiss Army in which soldiers’ service rifles are usually stored privately at their homes (it became the choice of the soldier in 2010). What started as a gun culture centered around defense of the country through military duty also became a target shooting and collecting one. In addition to this, many cantons (notably the alpine cantons of Grisons and Valais) have strong traditions of hunting, accounting for a large but unknown number of privately held hunting rifles, as only weapons acquired since 2008 are registered.
Helllllll yeah
Wow. You gun nuts have way too much time at hand.
Not really, it probably took me under 30 minutes to look this up.
A personal insult to me also isn’t an argument contrary to my claims about Switzerland, nor is it a defense of yours, so I will assume you admit you were incorrect in your claim about the country.
Furthermore, it’s not even very good ad-hominem in that I never even claimed that firearms are a good thing. I only ever contested that Switzerland is cultured despite it’s highly permissive gun laws, and cited sources showing that they do engage in a lot of firearm sport, and have personal access to firearms in refutation of your anecdote.
Since I never said anything about positive or negative effects of firearms themselves in this conversation, this means you have made an assumption about my personal point of view of firearms and are now using your own assumption as a counter argument to a topic we have not even discussed between ourselves at this juncture.
This is called a straw man fallacy.
To avoid that, it is best to stay on topic, in this case, whether or not firearms are accessible to the public for sport in Switzerland.
Please either point out where I made the statement that guns are good etc. to show why I am a “gun nut”, or cite a source in reference to your claim about firearm accessibility in Switzerland if you want to support anything you have said thus far.
Otherwise, feel free to just not reply to me.
Which one is that, if I may ask?
Germany. Can you imagine: A country where the anniversary of the school shooting is still a news item every year after all that time.
I wish that was the case here (Michigan, USA). We have had two in recent memory.
What are your thoughts on firearms ownership in the US, given what has happened to our government lately? Do you see merit in the idea of civilian ownership of small arms in our current circumstances?
If people in the US still believe a rogue government can be reined in by a handful of armed idiots, well, I’ve got a bridge for sale.
The less people have guns, the better. Less accidents, less murder and suicides, less school shootings, and less guns being bought and stolen by criminals.
And one big part of the problem is that people who should not have access to anything more dangerous than a stick can still get their hands on guns in the US.
No question that banning guns reduces all of those things. In Germany it also made it easier to round up Jews, homosexuals and other undesirables in the middle of the last century. I don’t think that human nature has changed since then. Is civilian gun ownership the only thing preventing similar behavior in the US? Or is it irrelevant as I infer that you believe? I don’t think that there is a definitive answer.
There is merit in many of the different points of view on the subject. Unfortunately, most arguments around gun ownership and bans are fear-based. That makes rational discussion very difficult. It also makes it easy to demonize people who don’t agree with you.
If the Jews and other minorities had guns in Germany 90 years ago is similarly irrelevant as having guns in the US nowadays.
Or do you actually believe a few wannabe freedumb fighters would actually stop a rogue US government?
Thats how it works in some European countries right? Most people aren’t even trusted to carry a utility pocket knife.
“Handful of armed idiots” Do you consider 108 MILLION Americans to be a handful???
I noticed that you aren’t arguing with the “idiots” part. We have a lot more than a handful of those…
I didn’t argue with the idiots part because its subjective and impossible to realistically quantify.
Need
With the political environment in the US I am increasingly feeling unsafe and feel like a gun is almost a must have now
If the fasciats are going to try to kill me I will take at least one with me.
I think they are interesting from a mechanical perspective.
Police don’t show up quickly enough to deal with a serious threat, so I have a firearm for home defense. Just one. Not into collecting, whether firearms or anything else.
I have guns for the same reason I have fishing rods and a bow. I enjoy it, and there’s some satisfaction in being able to hunt or fish for a meal yourself. I didn’t grow up getting to shoot much aside from a few rare afternoons out with a .22 when dad had time. While I fished a lot, didn’t really get into shooting or hunting until after college. I started small game hunting with friends who would go out. While I had a lot of catching up to do, since I hadn’t grown up hunting like they did, I eventually figured out how to clean game without making too much of a disaster of it. I enjoyed the independence of it, knowing more about the whole process and being able to do more for myself. Taught myself to tie flies, eventually started reloading my own ammo, then got further down the rabbit hole to casting bullets. For my leverguns with oversized bores (30-30 and 45-70), rolling my own ammo has been the best way for me to get decent accuracy. I have firearms because they’re useful tools, and it’s just darned fun to know that I cast the bullet that was loaded over the powder I measured, in the brass casing I trimmed and resized, and it hit the target waaay out there down range right where I wanted it to go.
Self defense against wildlife and shady humans when I’m solo camping
Want, we have coyotes and I have a small dog. They usually stay away when I’m around but the last time they barely turned tail once I aggressively went to engage them after picking my dog up. He’s always on a leash but I feel more comfortable carrying a .22 with me when we go out after dark during the winter after that last encounter.
I had the same concern and instead got a big dog to watch over my small dog, my kids too but like also my small dog.
Great Pyrenees.
The coyotes don’t even come around anymore. 95lbs of the laziest guard dog ever is enough to deter them. And so good with the kids - they can lay on her and she don’t give a fuck. Though she can move when she needs to - I’ve seen her in action.
Best part is that she is always ready. I don’t gotta walk around with a gun, or run to get it from the safe. She is always there guarding us.
That said. The gun would have definitely been cheaper in the long run. My dog’s food budget quadrupled.
That sounds like the most incredible dog! Thank you for sharing
Mostly for protection and also for emergencies. I don’t hunt anymore because I can not make good use of the animal and also I don’t even particularly like game meat, but it’s nice to have that option if stuff goes to hell in the future. The defensive aspect I have used several times.
To me it always seemed crazy to trust other people with your protection. Not only are governments almost always run be psychopathic pedophiles who will murder millions for any number of reasons while surveiling the rest of the population, but humanity in general is not at all trustworthy. Most people are pretty evil. They will hurt innocent people. That’s how humans on average are.
I have a deep and abiding fear of paper targets.
Sorry, I find humor helps me deal with bad situations. And as a progressive in the US, that is where I currently find myself. Large numbers of people profess that they would be happy to murder me, my family, and my friends, because we aren’t misogynist, racist, homophobic, and transphobic sociopaths. I put a high value on human life, and I would not kill someone over property, but I am willing to kill to prevent others from being killed.
I believe in using as little force as necessary. I believe in de-escalation. I believe that deadly force should always be a last resort. But having a firearm leaves that option on the table, in case nothing else works.
I hope that we can eventually all get back to treating each other like human beings. Right now I don’t think I can count on that from everyone.
Whilst I do enjoy the military history of guns and have been to a shooting range in the USA before I don’t want any in my home. Ifi had them before I might not have been around due to the relative easy way out.
Also they are very hard to get where I live. I like that a lot. I think that there a majority of stupid people that I think would be terrible gun owners around me. I think in general my life would be worse is a majority of people owned guns.
Need: no I do not
Want: pew pew explosions :DD
Do not want: sometimes I have the longing for death, also I’d be anxious about it being stolen and used for un-cool things, also seems expensive, also passive discomfort around a killing tool
My dad is into guns, so he gave me one. And I sold it. And then he gave me another, and I guess I’ll hang onto this one for a bit.
