• Nudding@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    It’s not terrorism if you’re trying to save the planet from those trying to destroy it.

        • spookedbyroaches@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          "Saving humanity from the sins of the west and their ideological indoctrination is also not political. "

          • Osama Bin Laden (probably)

          Just call it what it is then say it’s justified if you think it is. If you can dress this up as not terrorism then nothing is.

          • Nudding@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            One is literally happening outside as we speak, one is based upon an extremist interpretation of a 2000 year old book. Can you spot the difference?

            • spookedbyroaches@lemm.ee
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              1 year ago

              The existence of God is unfalsifiable, so you can’t say it’s untrue to the believer. Just make the rules and play by them. Also it’s more like 1500 years ago 🤓.

              • tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                1 year ago

                The idea of climate change and it’s causes IS falsifiable though, which is why taking actions related to that cause is a bit different than something that has no way to be proven.

                • spookedbyroaches@lemm.ee
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                  1 year ago

                  In which scenario do you think that you’re gonna live for longer and/or with a higher quality of life.

                  • Mass blowing up and destruction of fossil fuel infrastructure
                  • The status quo

                  Think about the implications of each scenario and let me know.

                  • Nudding@lemmy.world
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                    1 year ago

                    I think you’re an idiot if you think it’s the status quo. Even if we stopped producing fossil fuels tomorrow its too late to undo what we’ve already set in motion anyway.

      • Jaytreeman@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        Violence is a key word in that definition.

        Violence: Behavior or treatment in which physical force is exerted for the purpose of causing damage or injury.

        So, starving a group of people isn’t terrorism because you’re not exerting physical force.

        Not easily stopping a fire when you know it’s going to spread towards an occupied house isn’t violence because you’re not exerting physical force.

        Poisoning drinking water isn’t violence because you’re not exerting physical force.

        Real question: what do you call those things? It can’t be defined as terrorism. What is it?

        • betheydocrime@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          I don’t think “physical force” is a necesarry component of violence. Take, for example, domestic violence. The US DOJ gives these criteria for if an action is DV or not:

          Domestic violence is a pattern of abusive behavior in any relationship that is used by one partner to gain or maintain power and control over another intimate partner. Domestic violence can be physical, sexual, emotional, economic, psychological, or technological actions or threats of actions or other patterns of coercive behavior that influence another person within an intimate partner relationship. This includes any behaviors that intimidate, manipulate, humiliate, isolate, frighten, terrorize, coerce, threaten, blame, hurt, injure, or wound someone.

          I think a more apt definition of violence would be “coercive behavior”

          • Jaytreeman@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            Coercive behavior doesn’t quite work though.
            Yours is better than either of the ones posted, but I do think the physical force aspect is important to differentiate from other aspects.

            I was going to attempt to make a point about how stopping terrorism that isn’t explicitly violent with violence isn’t the same thing.

            Starving a population isn’t violence, but it is terrorism. Attempting to give that population food and being stopped by the state by legal means is terrorism.

            The state is going to define things in specific ways to ensure that they’re considered correct.

            I had written out a response to the person I replied to and then didn’t post after reading some of their other comments. They’re probably just a troll, or one of those people that’s legitimately kind of smart but hasn’t been around people that are incredibly smart, so hasn’t had a reason to adjust their opinions about things because they might be shallowly correct but are fundamentally wrong. Like Newton’s laws.

        • spookedbyroaches@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          Kinda missed the point here. The other guy was saying that eco terrorism is not terrorism. I said nothing about if starving people is violence or not.

      • Urist@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        From your link on eco-terrorism:

        Eco-terrorism is an act of violence which is committed in support of environmental causes, against people or property.[1][2]

        Not sure that I count violence against property as valid. If destruction of material values are classified as violence and eco-terrorism, are then not oil companies and other capitalists destroying the environment eco-terrorists too?

        • Unaware7013@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          are then not oil companies and other capitalists destroying the environment eco-terrorists too?

          Objectively, no they are not by the definition you quoted. The definition stated the violence is for the environment; those people execute violence for capital against the environment. I’m sure there’s another definition that would cover those people and the whole they cause, but this one ain’t it.

          • Urist@lemmy.ml
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            1 year ago

            I agree that they are missing a crucial motive for their actions, namely the cause of doing it for the environment. I still think my critique of the definition’s statement of “violence against property” is valid. It seems to be included in the definition because they want to brand certain acts as terrorism, even though destruction of property is a label they could themselves hold as much as their opponents.

            I think that is also why some so called eco-terrorists feel themselves justified in acting out “violence against property”, since they may see it as an act of self defence against the originial portrayers of said “violence”. Ultimately however, I think a distinction should be made between physical violence and destruction of material values. Whether the material value is an entity’s legal property or not should also not matter in this case, in my opinion.

    • FuryQuaker@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      It’s not terrorism if you’re helping Allah slay the evil nonbelievers who are destroying the Earth!