• camelCaseGuy@lemmy.world
      721·
      10 months ago

      Exactly! I would add that you can still use “no binario” or “no binaria” in a (somewhat) respectful manner. For instance, you can say “persona no binaria” (non binary person), “comunidad no binaria” (non binary community), because both nouns are feminine, you can use the feminine alteration of “no binario”. For masculine I would go with “su género es no binario” (its gender in non binary), since gender is masculine and “su” doesn’t imply any gender at all.

      Again, not an expert just another fellow native Spanish speaker with a bit of a geekiness about languages.

    • XEAL@lemm.ee
      13·
      10 months ago

      The solution is pretty simple:

      Instead just saying “soy no binario/no binaria” people have to say “soy una persona no binaria”

    • guts@lemmy.ml
      156·
      10 months ago

      Many Latinos refuse to use “e” when the “o” is already neutral. Better improve your Spanish grammar than changing it.

    • apolo399@lemmy.world
      51·
      10 months ago

      This isn’t entirely true either. The adjective “binario” has to agree with the gender of what’s being talked about, either the grammatical gender of the noun or the natural gender of the person. A salient example could be the noun “piloto”. Just as adjectives inflect for gender so do pronouns, so you can say “el piloto” or “la piloto” depending on the natural gender of the person, and inflect adjectives accordingly. Grammatical gender and natural gender are both distict concepts that impact gender inflection in spanish.

  • ndru@lemmy.world
    1222·
    10 months ago

    When native English speakers complain that changing pronouns is too hard 🧐

  • drathvedro@lemm.ee
    23·
    10 months ago

    Are there any spanish people? Is it based on person’s gender or the following word’s gender?

    e.g. in Russian, “nebinarniy chelovek” means nonbinary human but in male declension because the word human itself is male, and “nebinarnaya persona” is female because the word person is female. We also have “nebimarnoye litso” where “litso” is face or a person and it’s a third gender literally called soulless and beloved by police and lawyers because its dehumanizing

    • Goun@lemmy.ml
      10·
      10 months ago

      Interesting! It’s based on the subject’s gender. In spanish, human is male and person is female as well, but we don’t have a third gender.

    • ilikekeyboards@lemmy.world
      539·
      10 months ago

      I don’t even know why you’d debate this thing about the russian language, they’ve got more on their plate until they reach debating social issues

      • Klear@lemmy.world
        22·
        10 months ago

        It’s an example of a language with grammatical gender they are familiar with, so of course they use it as an example. Works the same way in most (all?) slavic languages.

      • drathvedro@lemm.ee
        1·
        10 months ago

        It’s true that gender issues are not even something that is talked about currently in Russia. But I’m just using the example from OP post to talk about linguistic features here. For me and I think most English speaking folk it might sound confusing whether Spanish grammatical gender implies person’s gender and threw example in Russian where it doesn’t have to - I can talk about you in male, female, or neutral gender. It only depends on which words I use and which endings they have.

    • _danny@lemmy.world
      1619·
      10 months ago

      I don’t know why you’re being down voted. As a Spanish speaker, it’s a definite limitation of the language. Where is the penis on a pen, or the vagina on a pencil? Not everything needs a gender, even if you take a firm stance on the existence of non-binary people.

      • Provoked Gamer@lemmy.ca
        291·
        10 months ago

        Most people speaking a certain language don’t view it as gender gender. They view it as grammar. They usually view it as “this word changes the end of the adjective to ‘e’ instead of ‘a’” or whatever rule your language has.

        Gender in languages aren’t just, “that object seems female” or “that object seems male” because they are many rules that change the gender of the object even if it looks “manly”. For example, in Punjabi, there’s a rule where if the noun has an “ee” at the end, it will be feminine regardless of its characteristics because the sentence flows better that way in Punjabi.

        Languages just have gender because it sounds easier to say/flows nicely, rarely actually because they think a certain object has an actual gender.

        -A native speaker of a gender language

  • N-E-N@lemmy.ca
    53·
    10 months ago

    Imagine all the annoyances we’d solve if we made languages less gendered (including English)

    • stoneparchment@possumpat.io
      13·
      10 months ago

      Hi hello I’m your friendly neighborhood molecular biologist and I want to tell you (or anyone who might think like you) that you’re totally fucken wrong lol

      It is commonly accepted by contemporary biological scientists that sex exists on a spectrum. The technical definition of sex involves the size of gametes (in humans: sperm and egg cells) that are created by the organism, but we don’t usually go around “unsexing” people who don’t make gametes (the infertile, the elderly, etc.)

      Instead we might look at chromosomes, genitalia, or secondary sex characteristics (beard, breasts, voice, etc.). Although the state of these characteristics often aligns (ie. XY usually means penis and more hair) they for sure definitely do not always.

      You can have unusual chromosome combinations (XXY, XXX, etc.), you can have a modification of the signalling pathway for sex hormones (androgen insensitivity), you can have mutations in specific genes relating to secondary sex phenotypes (extra hair, no hair, voice changes, etc.). You might have a person whose gentalia say “female” but chromosomes say “male”. You might get a person whose face, voice, and body says “female” but whose genitalia say “male”.

      You might think these things are too rare to bother with, but intersexuality (defined as a person who’s sex can’t be conventionally filtered into male or female) is estimated to be as common as 2% of the population (basically the same as red-headed people in the USA). Many people estimate that the actual incidence of unalignment between all sex characteristics as assigned gender is even more common if we expanded the definition to include internal brain structures relating to sexual and gender identity, or natural differences in hormone quantities that overlap between members of different sexes. Basically, science says non-binary is valid as fuck.

      That’s not even to get into the social construct of gender, but there’s a whole scholarly discipline there as well. But I’m a biologist and people weirdly trust essentialist constructs of sex and gender more than social ones, so here I am.

        • zwekihoyy@lemmy.ml
          1·
          10 months ago

          a couple things here;

          1. you care why?

          2. you most literally can change the rules of language on the fly. that’s kinda how language works and is created.

          edit: removed the last comment as the previous guy was the one going on about sex first, regardless, differing levels of hormones can often influence this, considering males can have varying levels of estrogen and vice versa for females and testosterone. other animals often portray characteristics opposite that of their sex, as well.

          this is just an odd thing for you to care about. why wouldn’t you instead let people live their life without your criticism when they clearly are having trouble parsing their place in life and their understanding of themselves.

          • Disgusted_Tadpole@lemmy.ml
            1330·
            10 months ago

            Jokes are not for everyone to laugh at and you don’t get to decide what’s a joke and what’s not. As you seem quite concerned if this is hate speech or not, let me reassure you : it’s not, I meant this as a joke. If you still want me to stop, feel free to block my account.

            • webghost0101@sopuli.xyz
              135·
              10 months ago

              You gave away your stance when you assumed that the person that was just providing general factual information and context was somehow offended by your comment.

              This implies that you believe your comment can be understood as offensive and that a logical response for an offended party is to… educate people with context.

                • webghost0101@sopuli.xyz
                  94·
                  10 months ago

                  “You guys”? Were all internet strangers here, free to act on our own accords. My personal opinions are mine alone.

                  All that one person did was copy some dry factual information of something i though you where have a misconception about. The fact that just reading a generic fact makes you think that someone got offended makes me think you where feeling threatened somehow.

                  If you have any logical reasoning why else you’d jump to that conclusion i am happy to hear it.

                  Till you do i keep my own conclusion which is that “woke” makes you feel upset and i need to balance an honest attempt at making you reflect on your own behavior versus hurting your fragile worldview.

        • _danny@lemmy.world
          156·
          10 months ago

          I got the joke, but it’s just not funny. It’s overused so much I was fully expecting someone to say it as soon as I hit the comments. It’s a part of the “only joke” series right leaning people make about non-binary people being “attach helicopters” and it comes up every time the subject comes up on the Internet.

          • Disgusted_Tadpole@lemmy.ml
            620·
            10 months ago

            Idk, I’m not from the US and don’t know what jokes you guys see on daily basis. Thing is, I couldn’t care less if you find that funny or not. What’s also funny is that the comment had +/- 10 upvotes and 0 downvotes till you guys came saying this is right leaning, trans hate and other utter crap. What was a simple joke (that you don’t find funny, I get it) is now labelled something way different. Gotta love this culture.

              • Disgusted_Tadpole@lemmy.ml
                712·
                10 months ago

                You didn’t understand, let me clarify for you : I don’t care if people find a joke good or not. None of my concern. I’m just reacting to people saying I’m using my comment against trans people. I really don’t know what’s up with those guys.

        • webghost0101@sopuli.xyz
          87·
          10 months ago

          Joke? My take was that you made a foolish mistake and where rightfully corrected.

          What was the funny part supposed to be? That the B stands for binary? Grow up 🙄

            • webghost0101@sopuli.xyz
              53·
              10 months ago

              All i see is sentence that makes no sense however i read it and seemed to be confused about the meaning of b in lgbt+

              Providing dictionary description as context is a great way to avoid misinformation because no matter how common knowledge may seem there are always people who have yet to learn.

              Me responding to you stems purely from how you reacted to this person doing what is just a sensible normality. And not your failed attempt at humor though.

              • Disgusted_Tadpole@lemmy.ml
                11·
                10 months ago

                Do all jokes have to be factually correct ? Can you please provide some sort of notice so I can play joke the way it should be ?

                • webghost0101@sopuli.xyz
                  2·
                  10 months ago

                  Its often difficult to differentiate between serious and non serious on internet forums.

                  Something you can do is add /s to imply sarcasm so at minimum people understand that your not being serious. Humor remains subjective but at least you keep your dignity.

                  I legit read your “joke” like you where being serious and just that stupid.

      • s_s@lemm.eeEnglish
        42·
        10 months ago

        You can be bisexual and still support the trans and fluid communities.