The point is they will do it too, and it will have been increasingly normalized. It will not be applied per your definition of “fine”. Remember, “they” (read, maga types) think immigrants and others are “harming society”.
“They” also do things like voter intimidation at polling places, burning ballot boxes and similar. I wouldn’t say it’s ok to do those things, just because right wing fascists are doing it.
Be clear: I want the very worst for him, but I want it to come from a system of justice, not a method that often leads to innocent bystanders being hurt.
Read the room, my guy. America has no system of justice. Most of these abhorrent people are on their way to governmental leadership positions. There’s no highroad that leads to winning back the country or justice.
Well keep praying to yourself it we’ll get better. Cause it isn’t going to. You have just elected a rapist criminal egomaniac into office. And most of the country doesn’t care.
I think maybe the problem here is there is no justice when the system has failed by not confining the worst behaviors of the rich. We have no access to the tools you have mentioned, such as prosecution. Their felonious leader has modeled their path forward by evading any and all consequence. We are the innocent bystanders. They have already normalized harming us and now they will legislate it. We must resist the bystander effect at all cost.
Thanks for actually discussing things with me, your comment is great. The concerns you list are super super valid.
Let me share my perspective on doxxing in light of your comment: I feel that to accept the normalization of the act of doxxing to be somewhat like the bystander effect. (Please keep reading, I’m not trying to twist your words). If we see doxxing happening, and say “yeah, that’s a normal thing you do” it’s as if we just keep on walking while the house burns (I think that’s what happened in the original event the effect is based on). Edit you can disagree with me, that’s ok. I’m just trying to use the example you provided to house the discussion.
Instead I think we should stand up against that even when they do it regularly.
I do not have a full answer for you regarding how we can alternatively take the fight to fascists, my point, which I have been slammed on here is that I fundamentally believe the task should be attempted, to our last moments, without using the tools of the oppressors. But I’m happy to keep noodling on it with you, as you are actually discussing.
Sharing my opinion that I think doxxing is dangerous does not obligate me to provide a solution, but to humor you, I’d focus on looking after your people, sticking together, and organizing. These maga clowns thrive on building “others” they can isolate and abuse.
Hard disagree. Look at how he reacted when an old lady showed up at his door. The reason the Nazis are so comfy recently is because of the high road tolerance you’re espousing. In a civil society, I’d be agreeing with you, but this isn’t a civil society anymore. It’s more like The Grey and you’re trying to play nice with the wolves. It’s them or us, and it isn’t us that made it this way.
They won’t stand toe to toe. They’ll respond in the night like cowards they are.
I am NOT espousing tolerance. Everyone is foolishly assuming I’m saying “don’t doxx AND DONT DO ANYTHING ELSE”. I’m not. I’m saying doxxing is not the road to success, and is terroristic behavior. There are more effective, more targeted methods available that don’t endanger neighbors and mistaken identities (wrong address)
They want you to normalize behavior like this.
Edit if eating downvotes for disagreeing with this community on popularizing poorly targeted, in accurate methods, that can easily be reversed en masse onto at risk people, by enemies who have lots of guns and lots of free time, (and a displayed proclivity for surreptitiously destroying and shooting things up in the night) then I’m fine with it.
Y’all are clearly ready to just fling violence all over without thinking of innocent people who will be caught up. The votes reflect that.
By popularizing the topic it is normalized. There’s also no need to compromise ethical standards.
I want Fuentes charged for the hate crimes and terroristic threats he makes. I am NOT defending him. But I don’t want people going into his neighborhood, getting the house wrong and hurting an innocent person, for example. Or maybe he moves and the new owner gets the heat.
Charged for what? The president has said grab them by the pussy? What crimes do you think he we’ll be charged with? There is no reason of law in America.
The point is they will do it too, and it will have been increasingly normalized. It will not be applied per your definition of “fine”. Remember, “they” (read, maga types) think immigrants and others are “harming society”.
They already are. This is just self defense.
2 wrongs don’t make a right.
“They” also do things like voter intimidation at polling places, burning ballot boxes and similar. I wouldn’t say it’s ok to do those things, just because right wing fascists are doing it.
There’s nothing wrong with ruining the life of a monster like Nick Fuentes. There are consequences to publicly encouraging rape.
Be clear: I want the very worst for him, but I want it to come from a system of justice, not a method that often leads to innocent bystanders being hurt.
Read the room, my guy. America has no system of justice. Most of these abhorrent people are on their way to governmental leadership positions. There’s no highroad that leads to winning back the country or justice.
The lack of quality doesn’t mean I need to accept “worse”. I certainly don’t need to cheer for it, even if I personally can’t stop it.
Well keep praying to yourself it we’ll get better. Cause it isn’t going to. You have just elected a rapist criminal egomaniac into office. And most of the country doesn’t care.
I never said do nothing. Just don’t do things that can accidentally hurt innocent people. I also know I didn’t vote for him.
I think maybe the problem here is there is no justice when the system has failed by not confining the worst behaviors of the rich. We have no access to the tools you have mentioned, such as prosecution. Their felonious leader has modeled their path forward by evading any and all consequence. We are the innocent bystanders. They have already normalized harming us and now they will legislate it. We must resist the bystander effect at all cost.
What do you suggest in this scenario?
Thanks for actually discussing things with me, your comment is great. The concerns you list are super super valid.
Let me share my perspective on doxxing in light of your comment: I feel that to accept the normalization of the act of doxxing to be somewhat like the bystander effect. (Please keep reading, I’m not trying to twist your words). If we see doxxing happening, and say “yeah, that’s a normal thing you do” it’s as if we just keep on walking while the house burns (I think that’s what happened in the original event the effect is based on). Edit you can disagree with me, that’s ok. I’m just trying to use the example you provided to house the discussion.
Instead I think we should stand up against that even when they do it regularly.
I do not have a full answer for you regarding how we can alternatively take the fight to fascists, my point, which I have been slammed on here is that I fundamentally believe the task should be attempted, to our last moments, without using the tools of the oppressors. But I’m happy to keep noodling on it with you, as you are actually discussing.
So what’s your course of action. Cry in your pillow? What ever most of the lefts think their actions it obviously is t enough.
Sharing my opinion that I think doxxing is dangerous does not obligate me to provide a solution, but to humor you, I’d focus on looking after your people, sticking together, and organizing. These maga clowns thrive on building “others” they can isolate and abuse.
“when they go low, we go high”
No thanks, I’m all out of weed. Let’s fight them where they are instead.
They are hoping you’ll say that
Hard disagree. Look at how he reacted when an old lady showed up at his door. The reason the Nazis are so comfy recently is because of the high road tolerance you’re espousing. In a civil society, I’d be agreeing with you, but this isn’t a civil society anymore. It’s more like The Grey and you’re trying to play nice with the wolves. It’s them or us, and it isn’t us that made it this way.
They won’t stand toe to toe. They’ll respond in the night like cowards they are.
I am NOT espousing tolerance. Everyone is foolishly assuming I’m saying “don’t doxx AND DONT DO ANYTHING ELSE”. I’m not. I’m saying doxxing is not the road to success, and is terroristic behavior. There are more effective, more targeted methods available that don’t endanger neighbors and mistaken identities (wrong address)
They want you to normalize behavior like this.
Edit if eating downvotes for disagreeing with this community on popularizing poorly targeted, in accurate methods, that can easily be reversed en masse onto at risk people, by enemies who have lots of guns and lots of free time, (and a displayed proclivity for surreptitiously destroying and shooting things up in the night) then I’m fine with it.
Y’all are clearly ready to just fling violence all over without thinking of innocent people who will be caught up. The votes reflect that.
Bahahahaha false equivalence.
Never said they were equivalent, I’m describing the behavior of the people that I don’t want coming to use doxxing as their day to day tool.
Sure but why on earth should that mean we should condemn it universally? It’s not like they’d stop if we did.
By popularizing the topic it is normalized. There’s also no need to compromise ethical standards.
I want Fuentes charged for the hate crimes and terroristic threats he makes. I am NOT defending him. But I don’t want people going into his neighborhood, getting the house wrong and hurting an innocent person, for example. Or maybe he moves and the new owner gets the heat.
Charged for what? The president has said grab them by the pussy? What crimes do you think he we’ll be charged with? There is no reason of law in America.
You are explicitly defending him. And putting in time and effort to do so.
Disagree. I’ve made my opinion on him quite clear.
My comment history is clearly anti maga anti fuentes.
I’m not interested in normalizing the tools of fascists and or terrorists.
Explicit defense is completely inaccurate. My original comment even said I have no defense for Fuentes, who I believe belongs in jail
Doxxing is wrong because of 2 things:
Bystanders get hurt when mistakes are made
Normalizing such things will put net new, innocent folks at risk.
This is the recent event that has doxxing on my mind, and why I’ve taken the time here
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41532098
I agree with you in principle, but it didn’t happen in this case and I feel like at this point, what’s done is done and you might as well laugh.