Which indicates that policy is secondary to messaging. On every substantive policy metric, Democrats are better than Republicans. People even say they prefer Democratic policies over Republicans’ when polled, by wide margins. So it must be the messenger and the way the message is being conveyed that is losing elections. That’s not to say that policies don’t matter, they absolutely do, but if you’ve got great policies and shit messaging, then you’re not going to win voters over, no matter how much better you are.
I forgot which comedian did this bit during their standup but their point was that progressives/liberals/leftists suck at messaging or sloganeering. Their goals are noble but there are no catchy slogans to go with it.
Just think about it. “They’re killing the babies!” is way more catchy and effective than “Access to abortion should be available to everyone. Even if you want to have a child, some complications or health issues may require you to abort the pregnancy as early as you can.” Yeah that’s not reaching everyone, is it? And you can’t scream it like “They’re killing the babies!”
And that’s just an example of policy that was chosen by few states’, which they also voted for GOP, giving them power to ban abortion on federal level. (In case you are wondering which states: Arizona, Missouri, Montana, Nevada)
If you can’t communicate how you can give the people what they want, how do you even counter “Democrats hate America!” or stuff like that?
And that works great as a protest slogan where people are already aware of how it works. But not a great slogan when you want to reach to people who are ignorant about what it entails.
All of those things you posted sound good, but if you look at the details and execution, it’s either a pathetically laughable attempt or something they should have done 3 years ago.
Prosecute companies for wage theft.
Start splitting up monopolies at the beginning of your presidency or vice presidency, not at the end.
Don’t destroy the train union and then pretend that you’re pro-union because you went to one picket line. And as I recall, it was Joe who went.
When you push for non-competes or you push for student loan forgiveness, and the Republicans find legal ways to stop your efforts, find other legal ways to continue your efforts. If you just shrug your shoulders and say we tried, but we couldn’t make your lives better, of course nobody is going to think that you meant a word you said.
The Democrat said 4 years to deliver, or at least to show that they tried very hard to deliver, and they chose to do neither of those. Which is sad.
And if Harris is telling us what she wants to do in the future, we’re immediately going to ask why she and Joe didn’t already do it in the past. When we don’t get an answer, we just shrug our shoulders. It’s more of the same from Washington politicians. Democrats in Washington certainly represent somebody, but that somebody isn’t you and me.
And if Harris is telling us what she wants to do in the future, we’re immediately going to ask why she and Joe didn’t already do it in the past.
I’m very much on the “Dems fucked this up train” but you’re getting really close to this, which is also true. Because maybe the answer there is "You saw him up on that debate stage right? Or “You know I’m VP, not P right now, right?”
Uh… We all know Trump is bad you’re not proving anything here. However, policies aside, Harris’s campaign sucked ass. If you don’t understand or refuse to accept that then there’s no conversation to be had here.
Edit: I was responding to an argument that doesn’t exist nvm.
Are you trying to make a point? Because you’re not saying anything
I’m not defending Harris’ overall campaign, but I am taking some issue with Bernie claiming that the Democrats have abandoned working class voters.
I like Bernie, and he makes some good points about the lack of any bill put forth to raise the minimum wage. But I think his overall characterization is quite a bit off base, especially when compared to what the Republicans are offering working-class voters. Which is basically nothing
I’ll listen to any counterpoint with an open mind but you have to make one
Oh yeah my bad there. I’ve seen enough “there was no problem with Harris’s campaign” takes that I kinda default to that.
To respond to the actual point you made, let’s first forget about any comparisons to Republicans because that’s just not the point here. After that I wanna establish that Biden’s administration is, by all means, an exception. He ran on an explicitly left-wing platform that Bernie had a role in creating, and despite still being a corporate democrat did things that actually helped the working class. Compared to his campaign Harris ran on “nothing will fundamentally change” and straight up said she didn’t have anything in mind that she’d do differently from Biden regarding the economy. That rejection of change, which shaped her campaign as a whole (the economy is just the most egregious example), is abandoning a working class who desperately needs change. Add in how Harris explicitly tried to court Republicans and we have reason to believe the DNC intended to shift to the right rather than the left, again abandoning the working class.
All fair points. My intended point was that take some exception to Bernie’s blanket statement that the Dems abandoned the working class voters. Though I agree they haven’t focused enough there, nor message it correctly.
Biden definititely ran and led on a more progressively left platform after Bernie and AOC collaborated with them in 2020. I think it’s clear Harris was going to continue that, but I don’t think it was properly messaged
The Republicans are doing zero for the working class other than lying to them and giving their money yo billionaires.
Dems supported unions where Trump impugned them
Dems forgave student loans, Republicans went to court to stop it
Dems pushed to end noncompetes for the average worker, Republicans went to court to stop it
Dems passed the CHIPS act to bring good paying jobs to multiple communities
Dems passed an infrastructure bill while Trump had 100 infrastructure weeks that accomplished nothing
Trump said he’d fire workers rather than pay them overtime
Harris promised to investigate price gouging, Trump is supported by the oligarchy
Etc, etc
Which indicates that policy is secondary to messaging. On every substantive policy metric, Democrats are better than Republicans. People even say they prefer Democratic policies over Republicans’ when polled, by wide margins. So it must be the messenger and the way the message is being conveyed that is losing elections. That’s not to say that policies don’t matter, they absolutely do, but if you’ve got great policies and shit messaging, then you’re not going to win voters over, no matter how much better you are.
The democrats don’t try to appeal to those without higher education. Republicans are great at presenting information in easy to digest bites.
Nonsense. They try nonstop to appeal to Republicans.
You’re like the ultimate contrarian in every comment. It’s kinda weird. I don’t get it. What’s your endgame?
I suppose it looks that way when you already get everything you want from the party.
I forgot which comedian did this bit during their standup but their point was that progressives/liberals/leftists suck at messaging or sloganeering. Their goals are noble but there are no catchy slogans to go with it.
Just think about it. “They’re killing the babies!” is way more catchy and effective than “Access to abortion should be available to everyone. Even if you want to have a child, some complications or health issues may require you to abort the pregnancy as early as you can.” Yeah that’s not reaching everyone, is it? And you can’t scream it like “They’re killing the babies!”
And that’s just an example of policy that was chosen by few states’, which they also voted for GOP, giving them power to ban abortion on federal level. (In case you are wondering which states: Arizona, Missouri, Montana, Nevada)
If you can’t communicate how you can give the people what they want, how do you even counter “Democrats hate America!” or stuff like that?
My body, my choice has been the message since forever.
And that works great as a protest slogan where people are already aware of how it works. But not a great slogan when you want to reach to people who are ignorant about what it entails.
All of those things you posted sound good, but if you look at the details and execution, it’s either a pathetically laughable attempt or something they should have done 3 years ago.
Prosecute companies for wage theft.
Start splitting up monopolies at the beginning of your presidency or vice presidency, not at the end.
Don’t destroy the train union and then pretend that you’re pro-union because you went to one picket line. And as I recall, it was Joe who went.
When you push for non-competes or you push for student loan forgiveness, and the Republicans find legal ways to stop your efforts, find other legal ways to continue your efforts. If you just shrug your shoulders and say we tried, but we couldn’t make your lives better, of course nobody is going to think that you meant a word you said.
The Democrat said 4 years to deliver, or at least to show that they tried very hard to deliver, and they chose to do neither of those. Which is sad.
And if Harris is telling us what she wants to do in the future, we’re immediately going to ask why she and Joe didn’t already do it in the past. When we don’t get an answer, we just shrug our shoulders. It’s more of the same from Washington politicians. Democrats in Washington certainly represent somebody, but that somebody isn’t you and me.
I’m very much on the “Dems fucked this up train” but you’re getting really close to this, which is also true. Because maybe the answer there is "You saw him up on that debate stage right? Or “You know I’m VP, not P right now, right?”
Uh… We all know Trump is bad you’re not proving anything here. However, policies aside, Harris’s campaign sucked ass. If you don’t understand or refuse to accept that then there’s no conversation to be had here.
Edit: I was responding to an argument that doesn’t exist nvm.
Are you trying to make a point? Because you’re not saying anything
I’m not defending Harris’ overall campaign, but I am taking some issue with Bernie claiming that the Democrats have abandoned working class voters.
I like Bernie, and he makes some good points about the lack of any bill put forth to raise the minimum wage. But I think his overall characterization is quite a bit off base, especially when compared to what the Republicans are offering working-class voters. Which is basically nothing
I’ll listen to any counterpoint with an open mind but you have to make one
Oh yeah my bad there. I’ve seen enough “there was no problem with Harris’s campaign” takes that I kinda default to that.
To respond to the actual point you made, let’s first forget about any comparisons to Republicans because that’s just not the point here. After that I wanna establish that Biden’s administration is, by all means, an exception. He ran on an explicitly left-wing platform that Bernie had a role in creating, and despite still being a corporate democrat did things that actually helped the working class. Compared to his campaign Harris ran on “nothing will fundamentally change” and straight up said she didn’t have anything in mind that she’d do differently from Biden regarding the economy. That rejection of change, which shaped her campaign as a whole (the economy is just the most egregious example), is abandoning a working class who desperately needs change. Add in how Harris explicitly tried to court Republicans and we have reason to believe the DNC intended to shift to the right rather than the left, again abandoning the working class.
All fair points. My intended point was that take some exception to Bernie’s blanket statement that the Dems abandoned the working class voters. Though I agree they haven’t focused enough there, nor message it correctly.
Biden definititely ran and led on a more progressively left platform after Bernie and AOC collaborated with them in 2020. I think it’s clear Harris was going to continue that, but I don’t think it was properly messaged
I almost feel like someone maybe confused comment threads because it’s not directly related to your main comment.
Nothing? They’ll be taking away what working class has now. That’s worse than offering nothing.
Joe and the train crash is real union support. Please.