Paywall removed. https://archive.ph/BkIad
Doesn’t it take only 1 of the counties with veto power to shut this down? Why would Russia ever approve?
Edit: Had a brain fart. Thanks for the corrections. Leaving my dumb comment anyway.
NATO. Not the UN. Russia has no say into nato since it was designed to fit Russia.
designed to fit Russia.
Luckily Russia isn’t fit.
Never ask a man their wage, never ask a woman their age, never ask who started NATO and why.
Russia isn’t in NATO, but they are it’s most successful recruiter.
Which is why I’m baffled why people still spread the myth that Russia invaded to ‘stop nato aggression.’
Like, firstly you’re fucking wrong, but if you want to wear that L like a medal then go for it. Russia is the biggest reason the baltics joined.
Russia is the biggest reason the baltics joined.
The Baltic states joined in 2004. Long before Putin was made into a pariah, and Russia was still seen as part of the West and publicly aspiring to join NATO
russia, seen as part of the west? what the hell.
I’m not sure who would say that it was to ‘stop NATO aggression’, but it’s not hard to imagine it as a some kind of response to NATO’s continued expansion around them.
NATO hasn’t been in any direct operations against Russia but they have been involved in the ME where they have been active.
I think of it a lot in the same way as the US’s pacific ocean and Caribbean territorial expansion and involvement in central america as a response to the Cuban Missile crisis and Soviet posturing.
I think of it a lot in the same way as the US’s pacific ocean and Caribbean territorial expansion and involvement in central america as a response to the Cuban Missile crisis and Soviet posturing.
The “Cuban” missile crisis was started by USA putting nukes in Turkey.
yup.
Wasnt the US involved in SA long before the CMC?
Well yea, the US has had imperial ambitions since its founding, but they definitely doubled down when their primary adversary set up camp in their backyard
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I’m not saying there isn’t reason for those countries to want to joint an alliance against their imperialist neighbor, but honestly it’s kinda hard not to see how NATO’s influence has been abused for purposes other than defense.
Which happened first? NATO expansion, or Russian invasion?
There’s your answer.
Nato: Invades the entire middle east and fucks it up to steal oil
You: “What a great defensive alliance”
Where those WMD’s in Iraq at?
Because that’s what Russia has been repeating for the past two years. Some people believe lies whan they’re repeated often enough.
A major reason may have been to stop Ukraine’s entry in Nato though.
I am very confused by your comment. Are you saying Putin never said that, or are you saying he was lying?
From Putin’s actual mouth:
ON DECISION TO LAUNCH ‘SPECIAL MILITARY OPERATION’
“We saw military infrastructure being ramped up, hundreds of military advisers working and regular deliveries of modern weapons from NATO. (The level of) danger was increasing every day. Russia preventively rebuffed the aggressor. It was necessary, timely and … right. The decision of a sovereign, strong, independent country.”
Just to be clear, he definitely said that, but he was definitely lying.
(source: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/putin-speaks-victory-day-parade-moscows-red-square-2022-05-09/)
NATO not the UN, Russia isn’t a member.
Who gave Russia a veto at NATO?
Turkey 🇹🇷.
/s
Erdoğan would if he could
SO UN FAIR!
221 days until the next U.S. presidential election
Can Ukraine hold on that long?
If Republicans have a majority in Congress, they’ll continue to support Russia.
something theyre extremely near losing before next election
Who is the US is actually supporting Russia?
That would be the MAGA (bowel) movement.
To the best of my knowledge, I dont think I have seen a single maga supporting russia.
Marjorie Greene has gone on record supporting Russia. And Trump refuses to criticize Russia.
Then you’re wilfully ignorant and apparently don’t watch television or interact with social media.
Literally the entire GOP with standouts like Greene going far as to say we should cut all aid to Ukraine and shift to helping Russia. The entire right wing of our government took the red too literally and jumped in bed with former Soviet agents for a pocket full of rubles.
What if cutting all aid to Ukraine was actually a net benefit to the Ukrainian people?
What if chattel slavery was actually net benefit for black people because they got to leave Africa and learn useful skills?
That’s what you sound like with your ‘maybe Ukrainians would be better off under Vladimir Putin’s control’ rhetorical word poop.
False equivalence. Literally Ukraine would have been better off if the west had not given them any money at all. The war would have been over and Ukraine would have more territory and more living people. And that doesnt even get into if the war was entirely preventable to start with. Ukraine is about to lose the war and all you guys want to do is give them more money so more ukrainians die.
Should every country just surrender to aggressors, only those that require aid to defend themselves or some other criteria? This seems like a call for any small state to just give up when a conqueror is at their door ready to oppress them, is that what you believe?
Ukraine would have more territory
How would Ukraine have more territory when the reason Putin said he needed to invade was to take territory away from Ukraine to protect ethnic Russians?
Good points, let’s change Ukraine to Ireland and Russia to the British Empire and see if we still think they’re good points.
… Oh, oh god…
It seems we’ve BOTH made a huge mistake and inadvertently thought imperialism is good just because it had a Russian accent. How embarrassing for the both of us.
I’m glad we’ve both learned from this horrible accident and will no longer support imperial ambitions just because it’s being done by a non-US ally.
Five years? They need $100 billion at least monthly! It’s ridiculous the way Republicans treat these innocent people
That’s 20 billion per year. The EU’s alone defense spending for 2023 was 270bil. This is not a lot of money.
The EU has no defense budget, the member countries have.
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Except there’s no real common strategy behind it, so it’s pointless to look at it as a single defense budget.
Stop talking to ghosts I deleted that reply 4 hours ago.
I’m gonna have to get used to how slow federation can be…
Obviously.
Yeah, this is less the cavalry is here and more “we’ve committed 3 peanuts, which is better than no peanuts”. It’s probably enough to help Ukraine a bit, assuming they can agree to it and fund it as committed.
It’s unclear if this is humanitarian, non-lethal or general military aid, from the non-paywalled section of the article.
I get your point about how it compares relatively. But I beg to differ that $100 billion is not a lot of money
I know NATO doesn’t have unlimited resources, but given that this is an explicit proxy war with Russia, doesn’t $100bn seem kind of paltry? That makes it appear that they’re planning on continuing cash infusions from the US.
EDIT: I’m saying that the US can’t be relied on to continue supporting the war effort because the GOP in particular has become increasingly opposed to funding it.
It’d be so much better for everyone if we just took all of the funding going to Israel and redirected it to Ukraine. And then we nuke Israel or smthn idk
Chaotic good?
This thing has already been going on for 2 years and Russia isn’t pulling out. It’s a war of attrition. First side to blink loses. NATO cannot lose Ukraine to Russia. Period.
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might be chump change for you but likely its tied to Ukraine’s conceivable ability to pay down such debt. although in reality it would likely be mostly written off when things quiet down… especially since the moneys would be mostly spent on NATO military goods.
Well IIRC, for America, the funding money amount for Ukraine is usually just an estimate of the worth of already manufactured goods, mainly of weapons that we have stored that we weren’t gonna use in the first place, and only a small portion of the dollar amount is stuff like clothes, food, etc. which would be seen as an actual cost to the US. We have sent Bradleys and M1 Abrams (and some European countries sent Leopard 2A4s? and Leclercs I think), but I’m pretty sure they weren’t in use by the military and weren’t planned to be upgraded for use any time soon (but I’m just guessing, I can’t Google it rn, I may just be completely wrong on that).
We can do both.
The problem NATO has with this proxy war can’t be solved by printing money. The issue lies in the lack of industrial production in the west, and you can’t just create a huge industry for producing weapons and ammunition out of whole cloth.
This will be a fantastic vehicle for pushing for austerity in Europe though. The oligarchs have been very upset that Europeans enjoy a social safety net and things like pensions. The need for massive military spending will be a perfect justification for stripping these rights away from the workers. Europeans are about to start enjoying American style freedoms.
what too much finance capital does to a mf
Who said anything about printing money? NATO manages trillions upon trillions of dollars of already in circulation currency.
That money is already allocated, it’s not just sitting there in a big pile collecting dust.
Industrial production is not a significant issue the collective West has within the context of supplying Ukraine armaments and ammunition.
The issue is a lack of, or decline in, domestic political capital in key member states, cohesive unified policy, and a long term strategy.
Now, if the United States was completely removed from the equation, then industrial production capacity constraints, especially around munitions, may become a real issue.
lol CNN disagrees with you there bud https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/10/politics/russia-artillery-shell-production-us-europe-ukraine/index.html
warning to all, this guy does nothing but spread russian propaganda all day. check their post history.
Who ya gonna call?That’s right, I spread Russian propaganda as reported by mainstream western media.
Who goes back and reads new comments in two-day old posts, anyway?
Based on votes, more people than I thought…
Lemmy is still small enough that older posts have a chance to stick around. Another benefit over a huge forum like reddit where the sheer volume of stuff buries things really fast.
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chances are he has dementia
In other news: Zelenskiy signed a bill on Tuesday to lower the mobilisation age for combat duty from 27 to 25 https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraines-zelenskiy-signs-bill-lowering-mobilisation-age-combat-duty-25-2024-04-02/
So what we have here is nothing else than wholesale purchase of cannon fodder.
Every dollar that goes to funding nazis in Ukraine for a war they have no chance of winning is a dollar that can’t go towards funding genocide in the middle east. Of course that money should be going into public services instead, but as if they are ever going to allow that to happen.
EDIT: NATO nazis were fast to pounce on this one, HA!
lol the NAFO brigades
If I ever need to blow off some steam I’ll go to NonCredibleDefense and start blocking everyone I see. Not quite at that point yet.
😄
That condescending tone of yours paints the whole Ukraine with a nazi brush. While I believe it does reach azov battalion, the vast majority of Ukrainian army and goverment are not nazis, despite what RT might call them. In fact, I think funding to Ukraine should Increase so it can finally defeat Russia. Not only it would likely destabilize russian goverment, which consists of oil billionaires with a past of crime, corrupt bootlickers and, honestly, unapologetic nazis. But it also would disrupt russian funding for alt-right groups all over the world, which would be a major win against nazism.
That would have been a good point when the war was just started going, but we know better than that now. If you can’t see what Ukraine was all about at this point than i’m afraid there’s nothing I can say to change your mind.
The only thing that changed since the start is western faith in Ukrainian victory. I doubt it too. Perhaps something inside Russia has to happen, otherwise the human cost would be too great. NATO intervention could turn it around, but it would be very risky, I don’t think it would happen.
As for the goverments from my point of view, Ukrainian goverment seems to be more impatient and anixious meanwhile the Russian goverment is getting more shameless and ruthless. I haven’t seen any major revelations about either one that would somehow prove that Ukrainian gov are nazis and Russia is a better option.
The main reason I want Ukraine to win is not my belief that countries deserve to be independent and not have their land taken away by nearby imperialist powers. I do believe that, but the main reason is I want the current russian goverment to weaken and possibly depose Putin and reject imperialist ideas, to stop the money from crippled russian economy from going to war instead of public services. That would lay the ground work for further reforms, maybe finally make russia free. It would not be easy, but it is the best realistic option.
I fear if Russia wins it would be more isolated and more tyranical than ever, akin to Iran or North Korea. The cult of war will completely take over society and individual freedoms will be lost. And the economy will not bear for much longer, that is for sure.
Living in Russia is terrible and I will probably emigrate to another country soon. Luckly my english skills are good enough.
What I fear most besides staying in Russia is that I will grow old and never see it prosper.
You can’t take over a country that used to belong to you and is literally at your border and call that imperialism. You are being lied to.
Yeah I am being lied to. I have been fed lies my whole life. I was told that Russia is the most just and fair country. That every war waged was in self defence and all the people within its borders joined willingly and were happy.
But I was able to see through it. I have learnd that all territorial expansion was fueled by ruthless wars and genocides. Russian expanse to the east is no better than USA expansion to the west displacing and subjigating all people who lived there. I have learned of the terrible fates of people who lived here. Not only of strangers, but also those in my family tree who lived through the harshest times of oppression during USSR.
But most importantly I learned that countries don’t have a right to own other countries. It is the definition of imperialism after all.
And Ukraine is perhaps one of the most deserving countries to exist. Ukrainians have fought for so long to gain sovereignty and indepndence, but were betrayed. First thrown under the bus by Russian empire, then taken over by USSR during the revolution. And now Russia is trying to subjigate Ukraine again. I can only hope that this time this senseless conquest will fail.
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Leave it to the ignorant westeners to teach other people their own history. Surely you know better.
Also, the USSR crumbled on its own. Its flawed economic system could not bear all the millitary spending. And we are all better for it. Now its remains are poisoning todays Russia, but it will crumble as well, sooner or later.
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“Don’t fund genocide”
“Snk, must be a communist”
I hope my president does the right thing for once and vetos this thing.
Why would a Russian care?
I’m Turkish and Turkey is in NATO… We have a veto.
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