Edit/Update: It turns out that my last name has a capitol letter in the middle and they put a space in it. Thank god. I can actually vote this year.
Edit/Update: It turns out that my last name has a capitol letter in the middle and they put a space in it. Thank god. I can actually vote this year.
As a European, the whole registering to vote thing is honestly one of the wildest parts of the US elections to me. It’s so unnecessary complicated and prone to errors/manipulation. I just have to show up with my ID, doesn’t matter if it’s for the EU parliament or the local city senate.
It’s by design. We could make it easier, but certain groups benefit from making it difficult.
In conclusion, please send the UN to fix us
The OSCE reports are usually just shy of scathing. The US reaction to those missions ranges, as far as I’m aware, from being completely oblivious to it or its results to Sheriffs trying to arrest observers.
Well the reason is that there are state laws against outside observers, and no treaty giving any foreign government the ability to monitor. So they’re just enforcing the laws, as they’re supposed to.
Mind you I’m not saying the UN or any other nation is going to interfere, but seems really important to follow laws around voting to make sure the attitude of enforcement isn’t lax.
I’m not too familiar with the specific legal status of the OSCE in American law, I bet there’s a treaty or the other, but generally speaking a) you’re a member and b) you regularly send out your own people as OSCE mission members into other countries to observe elections and c) Every member state gets observed (alongside non-member countries inviting the OSCE because it’s a stamp of approval and can help stabilise democracies, establish trust in the procedures). Cursory observations are done for basically all elections that aren’t strictly regional, more in-depth ones every couple of elections. It’s democracies holding each other accountable.
If Bumfuck, TX, wants to make a statement against Canadians observing their elections that’s their god-damned right but it’s also the duty of Washington to shut them the fuck up. Not too filled-in on the details either but when you start arresting people with diplomatic passports accredited by the federal level I think you should maybe take a step back and make a phone call before deploying handcuffs.
Well you go ahead and find those treaties for me, since I’ve never gotten a result back from a search. And I’d like to believe but have no proof of that.
On the one hand, the UN making a resolution that they won’t trust the results of the US elections would play right into the hands of what some MAGAs are saying.
But MAGAs then agreeing to any UN resolution, especially one that requires third party oversight…
I’d say the odds are even on this.
It’s wild.
There are some local and state governments trying to pass automatic voter registration, but it’s an uphill battle, not unlike most things that would generally benefit the public good in this country.
Even in California, we got automatic voter registration passed the legislature, only for the governor to veto it.
Just wild that something so fundamental to a functioning democracy is so divisive.
That’s exactly why it’s divisive. They don’t want a functioning democracy.
There’s never been a United States ID card, for… reasons. As a Californian, I could get a California ID card, at the same place I got my California Driver’s License, if I didn’t intend to drive. The forms have the option of adding Voter Registration using the same information (birth certificate, proof of residence) at the same time. But some states make it all much more complicated.
Passport seems like it sorta fits, but it’s hardly universal.
Doesn’t have your address on it though.
Is it not an ID because of that? I don’t see the relevance of mentioning address here.
Edit: oh, proof of residence? I went back and re-read the GP. It makes more sense in that context.
…what the electorate consider a bug the politicians consider a feature…
So… I’m in Texas , been here a long time.
most ballot counts in the primaries and general are counted by secret software and hardware run by ultra conservative families the last 20 plus years. Recounts are not allowed and exit polls not used anymore because of unpredictability.
Nobody cares, no political party wants to change : not a topic in forums anywhere, even in conspiracy minded chat rooms, and it’s been this way forever ( since before 2000).
There is a ton of crazy that is ignored .
I’ve seen how the system works, I’ve been at the county chair level. Nobody will criticize it . There is a quiet culture of people knowing it’s invalid but decide to leave it be.
It’s overblown. It’s mostly propaganda.
My ID is good for 5 years, and I am required to update it within 60 days of changing residences. Every time I’ve renewed or updated it, they have asked me if I wanted to register or update my voter registration. My registration is updated every time I vote, and I don’t get de-registered unless I skip voting for about a decade straight, without re-registering when I renew my ID card.
ALL of the problems with voter registration are about people who either can’t or won’t get or renew their ID card. Every time you read about voter registration issues in the US, you should imagine going to your polling station without a current ID card.
That’s called privilege. You literally don’t realize what a burden it is for some people to comply with voter registration requirements, because your life is such that it’s easy for you.
I could try and explain it, but in my experience every example I give, you’ll take out of context and come up with a simple fix. Because you aren’t able to understand the cumulative effect of thousands of these examples all happening all the time. You’ll just pick each one, imagine it happening to you in your life once, and think “oh that’s not a big deal I could handle that”. But it’s death by a thousand cuts. “That” is not a one time aberration. Your whole life is nothing but “that”.
You just have to believe those of us more experienced in that kind of hardship than you.
Or, alternatively, believe the Republicans who have been caught on a hot mic saying that they implent voter ID laws specifically to suppress Dem votes.
The “privilege” you are talking about is the exact same privilege the parent comment assumed:
The “privilege” you are talking about is “having an ID card”. Every time you obtain, renew, replace, update, or otherwise contact the state bureau handling ID cards (usually, the DMV), they are required, under federal law, to update your voter registration unless you specifically decline.
The European standard is “get an ID card, show up and vote”. We implemented the European standard back in 1993.
Proving my point here. Yes, that’s privilege. It seems like normal to you, as all privilege does. But it’s very difficult for a lot of people.
It is, indeed, but the proper solution here is to lift them up to the bar, not lower the bar down to them.
Lack of ID prevents you from getting and keeping a job, attending school, accessing the banking system, getting a PO box, getting licenses. Being unable to vote is the least of your problems.
The proper solution is not to figure out how to make voting accessible to those without an ID. The proper solution is to get them an ID.
Nope. Voting is a fundamental right of a citizen. An illiterate dude living in a cave who has never even seen a concrete building should have the right to vote, if he’s a citizen. It is a civic responsibility for us to lower the bar for voting as low as possible to disenfranchise as few people as possible.
All those things you said about IDs are true, and yes we should be helping people get them. But in the mean time we must not disenfranchise them.
How would an illiterate dude living in a cave register to vote?
I guess America just can’t pull of what just about every European country does, but even then you don’t need this recurring manual registration mess. Just register everyone who filed a tax form last year and you should get most of the voting age population already.
A huge fraction of people (again, poor people, whom I’m sure you’re too privileged to associate with) do not file taxes and are not required to file taxes. See we’re getting into that thing I mentioned earlier where I give a thousand examples and you individualize each one.
If he knows his date of birth and his social security number, he can register in California. If he doesn’t know his SSN, they can look it up for him. In Texas, he doesn’t get to vote.
There is no recurring manual registration. You only need to register once in your lifetime.
If you move, you have to update your ID within 60 days, and every time you update your ID, they update your voter registration automatically. (unless you decline).
That has been federal law since 1993, and is pretty much equivalent to European standards.
You really have to go out of your way to not be registered to vote.
Hmm they did say “can’t” suggesting they acknowledge some folks have things blocking them
Yes, there are people who can’t obtain an ID card, for whatever reason. A European citizen who couldn’t obtain an ID card would have the exact same problems voting that an American citizen does. I don’t have a systemic solution for that. This would seem to be something that would need to be handled on a case-by-case basis, possibly involving the judicial system and a court order. It also doesn’t seem to be a particularly common problem. I’d bet all the money in my pockets that OP does, indeed, have some sort of ID card.
We have a remedy for this: Provisional ballots. Cast your vote now, and resolve any clusterfuck with registration later.
You don’t need an ID in Germany to vote just, push comes to shove, a way to make your identity believable. Expired ID, student ID, personalised public transport ticket, perfectly sufficient. Generally you just vote with your election notification, a sheet of paper with your address, ballot location, and number in the voter registry on it. If you try to vote with an ID but without notification workers are going to roll their eyes because they’ll have to manually search for you in their lists, heck, you might’ve turned up at the wrong location.
“I’ve had no issues, therefore issues don’t exist”
What I’m describing has been federal law for over 30 years. The European criticism about ID cards is nonsensical. Every time you obtain, renew, or amend your drivers license or ID, you update your voter registration.
Remember the context of my comment: I am replying to European criticism of registration. The European approach is for everyone to obtain a government issued ID card and present it at the polling station. The NVRA already does this. We have already adopted the European solution to this problem.
I don’t need my ID to vote, also it’s valid for 10 years. Municipalities fill the voting registry from their citizens’ registry, then send out notifications to everyone. You literally cannot miss an election. You generally go voting with that notification, it’s sufficient, or use it to request a mail-in ballot.
I’m sure administration is sufficiently different in the US than it is in Germany for the thing to not be able to work like that, but, big picture: The IRS can find everyone. Have them fill the registry, then.
Except, the whole point of this thread is an example of that not being the case.
That’s why it exists - to make it more inconvenient for people (especially in certain demographics) to vote.
the sound bites you hear about voting are intentionally misleading: you have to show up with an id to vote here too and that’s not where to controversy lies; but the soundbites are setup to make it sound like it is to engender the reaction you’ve shared.
the controversy is registering to vote; not voting; and the conservative states intentionally make registering as heavily bureaucratic as possible in the hopes of minimizing the number of people who can successfully finish to process of registration.
they’ve also dedicated hundreds of millions on dollars to understand and enact policies to keep the poor and minority groups from voting.
usually democrats sit back and let republicans openly do it, but sometimes democrats do it themselves; the democratic governor of california just made automatic voter registration illegal; just as the conservative states do.
Hold on, I’m in MN and we don’t have to show our ID to vote.
the reason why we have this mess is because the states get to make up whatever rules they want around voting so long as they never officially block you from voting. doing so would force the federal government to step in, so the red & purple states are careful not to poke that bear and instead focus their voter suppression efforts on the aspects of voting that previous court cases had decided that federal government has no say: like registration.
biden won because most of the battleground states managed to make registration & voting easier; like the example you shared (except mn is not a battleground state); and they’ve all since then repealed that easier access.
Yeah but we have voter id. And for some reason Americans think it is unreasonable to have to have a government issued ID as this would disenfranchise all the people that don’t have an ID… Which I think is also weird. Just make IDs accessible to citizens at low costs and implement voterID across the board.
A certain political party benefits from low voter turnout. Which, coincidentally, also happens to be the party working to get Trump elected and shield him from the repercussions of his crimes.
Yeah. It’s also not as if doing this now will be reasonable. It will be something that needs to be put into law including the affordable national ID and then worked towards over the course of a decade or something.
They could just make a government ID that is not mandatory. Much like a passport. And whoever holds a passport or a voluntary govt ID is automatically enabled to vote using their ID / passport, but then would still leave the choice of manually registering for voting for those who don’t trust “the government” and don’t want a govt ID
Why? The whole “illegals are voting” will be dead in the water. And requiring someone to be able to ID themselves using a government issued and official ID when performing stuff like voting is not weird. The whole convoluted show up with birth certificate yadda yadda is.
Yeah that’s pretty much what I meant, sorry if I wasn’t clear.
I just think in order to reduce the resistance against such a change, it might be good to still provide the “old” method with voter registration for anyone who doesn’t want a government ID because of “muh freedoms”.
That way, any normal citizen can just have a government ID and by identifying themselves be able to vote without further registration. Any citizen who doesn’t want an ID can go through a voter registration process, same as today.
This is where you’re missing it. The point of requiring voter ID in America is to make it as difficult and inaccessible as they can
Depends on the country though. In France you must be registered to vote (you’re assigned a specific voting office). It’s a single registration foe everything, not for each vote
Although the process is online, and takes like 5mins.
You also get a voting card, but it’s technically optional, it just speeds up the process in the voting office.
Just want to add, in the US you’d don’t have to register to vote each election/vote, just when you change address.
Imagine you moved countries, and were entitled to vote in both.
You have to tell the new country you exist there.
That’s the most common failure mode in the US, when you move states or even counties and there’s a miscommunication or lack of communication between where you came from and where you are. There is no top level federal voter database.
There are other issues, but this is the most common.
You don’t vote at a federal level, you vote at a state level, for federal stuff. (And state/local stuff)
I think for most people in the US when you move you have to get a new driver’s license, and that process also lets you register to vote as an automatic bonus if you check a box saying you want it
Not every adult has a driver’s licence.
True, and that is an issue, but I guess the main thing I’m getting at is that despite voter registration not being a unified system a majority of people moving between states aren’t going to be deterred from registering by a Kafkaesque bureaucratic labyrinth.
Some states have lifetime DL terms, while others are still ridiculously long.
That’s true but I’m just explaining the potential problem.
Are there people of voting age that are exempt from paying taxes? Because I’m pretty sure the federal government has a huge database of its citizens already through the IRS. People who became adults after the last tax season and people committing tax fraud would need to register manually once, but I don’t think that’s such a big risk.
As I said, federal government doesn’t handle this. So the IRS is involved for several reasons.
I see comments like this a lot. Most important and apparently most difficult for Europeans (and others but it’s almost always Europeans) to understand is that the US is a very large country, made up of 50 semi-independent states, each with its own government and laws-- about many things, not just elections. So that’s why things are more complex here–we’re not a small monolithic nation with one single, centralized government and set of laws that apply to everyone no matter where in the country they live.
Each US State runs its own elections; a person obviously can’t be allowed to vote in more than one state. Since people can move from one state to another at any time, and even have residences in more than one state at the same time (such as college students and well-off people), it’s necessary to register with the state you will be voting in, so that you are officially able to vote in that state and no other.
update response to the replies: Funny, the replies to this post comparing the situation to that of their country with the EU is basically the relationship I was trying to explain, yet they think they have somehow refuted what I said, when actually they validated what I said. Here’s what’s really “wild”: First you call our system stupid, then when I explain our system to you, you say, “But that’s just like our system!” and then downvote me for making you realize that what you called stupid is what you also have. 😄
Read the original comment condescendingly asking “Why do you have to register to vote?” yet they are also registered to vote in their own country, but don’t even realize it because it was done automatically for them as a citizen. Your government has to track who is eligible to vote[1] and therefore in EU elections as well, one way or another, even if you don’t use the word “registered” for it.
BTW, Many US States also automatically register their residents to vote (though a person can optionally refuse that); other US states expect you to register for it yourself (perhaps some European countries too?). Each state makes its own laws about that. Once registered in a state, we can also vote in our Federal elections, just like you can vote in EU elections.
[1] Example: Germany voter eligibility:
You do realize some countries in Europe have federal governments (Germany for example), right? And then these completely independent countries are part of the EU which have EU elections. So you have federation within federation. Also, the EU has higher population than the USA. We don’t even all speak the same language. We are allowed to move between EU countries whenever we like and have residence where we please.
I think its not Europeans that don’t understand.
update: In case it is not clear, being registered automatically is the same as not having to register, which is what the post is about. Idk what that update word salad is supposed to be or why it is an update instead of a reply.
Wait, Europe isn’t just France, Germany and the UK?
If you weren’t so broke, you would know there is also Switzerland. ;)
Switzerland isn’t a part of Germany???
In a incredible stroke of irony, you just described the European Union