• pjwestin@lemmy.world
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    1 month ago

    OK, so what youā€™re saying is that you know thereā€™s no evidence to back up your claims, but youā€™re assuming theyā€™re true based on your opinion of these outlets editorial decisions, and youā€™d like your opinion to be treated as a fact. Did I get that right?

    • Optional@lemmy.world
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      1 month ago

      No, you did not get that right.

      What Iā€™m saying is, Iā€™ll accept the fact-check that there is no record of them personally donating to the trump campaign directly, and thatā€™s sufficient to remove the image.

      HOWEVER, everyone needs to be very clear there are a myriad of ways the wealthy can ā€œdonateā€ to campaigns because of Citizens United, and that the media outlets in question have a long and verifiable history of not reporting damaging news or editorial slants against trump which in many ways is more valuable than $2500 in cash.

      SUCH THAT the idea that these CEOā€™s are not ā€œdonatingā€ to trump because they didnā€™t give the legally required name for a direct campaign donation is laughable. HA!

      • pjwestin@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        There arenā€™t any PAC donation records because SCROTUS legalized dark money. Of course we could argue about it, OR just look at the editorial slants and take this obvious fact at face value.

        Maybe you should clarify what the, ā€œobvious fact,ā€ was that we should take at face value. Because based on the context, it really sounds like you wanted us to accept your debunked infographic as fact.

        • Optional@lemmy.world
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          1 month ago

          Itā€™s pretty clear. If not, Iā€™m not sure what to say to clarify.

          Media owners help trump. Much more than a personal cash donation would. Which is why, when the ā€œdebunkingā€ states media owners donā€™t help (ā€œdonate toā€) trump, itā€™s ironic.

          By saying the infographic is ā€œdebunkedā€, the implication is that media owners are not supporting trump. And I say again - they could very well be giving millions, as Elmo Musk does, without being directly identified in an FEC filing. So, the ā€œdebunkingā€ is itself ā€œdebunkedā€ by simply pointing out political donations can be unknown.

          To restate, so you can clip ā€˜n save:

          • all the corporate news owners listed in the now-deleted infographic support trump
          • voluntary support for trump could be considered ā€œa donationā€ (of time, influence, other)
          • to say that the above has been ā€œdebunkedā€ because these multi-millionaires didnā€™t give their name as an individual political donor is (a) technically true and (b) very much beside the point that the heads of all major corporate news media in America are supporting trump in some fashion if not in multiple ways including financial donations.

          So, pop quiz hotshot: is the infographic ā€œmisleadingā€?

          • pjwestin@lemmy.world
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            1 month ago

            By saying the infographic is ā€œdebunkedā€, the implication is that media owners are not supporting trump. And I say again - they could very well be giving millions, as Elmo Musk does, without being directly identified in an FEC filing. So, the ā€œdebunkingā€ is itself ā€œdebunkedā€ by simply pointing out political donations can be unknown.

            OK, but by the logic youā€™re using, you could accuse anyone of anything. I could make an infographic that says, ā€œKamala Harris was caught killing small animals as a child,ā€ and when someone says that never happened, I could just say, ā€œWell, juvenile records are almost always sealed and expunged, and people who seek power are often have sociopathic tendencies, so this debunking is debunked, since itā€™s an unknown.ā€ Itā€™s just using the adage, ā€œyhe absence of proof isnā€™t the proof of absence,ā€ as a justification to continue spreading a lie.

            • Optional@lemmy.world
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              1 month ago

              Indeed you could and then the onus is on you to show all the examples of Kamala doing things like killing small animals. Does she talk about it? Does she wear things that indicate it? If she was the CEO of a corporate news organization, does she oversee stories promoting it? (Or, more likely, minimizing argument against it?) If you have boatloads of that evidence, you might have a good argument.

              Got nothing? Well, thatā€™s a poor argument. Maybe there are ā€œJewish space lasersā€ and MTG has broken the story wide open, but in the absence of literally any other piece of relevant information, itā€™s a poor argument to make.

              I have metaphorical boatloads of evidence that the corporate news kaisers are supporting trump. So much so that pretty much anyone on here knows a bunch of them already. So much so, itā€™s hardly worth mentioning because itā€™s omnipresent. Thereā€™s more supporting evidence coming out every day.

              That addresses the ā€œjust making up stuffā€ part, but let me once again, for the third time now, point out that financial donations to a campaign can be made in many ways that are not as rigorously documented as personal donations. So many ways, in fact, that the absence of these CEOā€™s names on opensecrets.org doesnā€™t really answer the question.

              But if youā€™re simply arguing that as far as words on the infographic go, A is not B, then Iā€™ll give it to you. Change ā€œdonorā€ to ā€œsupporterā€ on that infographic and we can have this exact same conversation again with the exact same meaning and relevance.

              Is the CEO that presides over news coverage that doesnā€™t continually mention trumpā€™s - conviction for hundreds of millions in fraud, the courtā€™s finding of rape, the bizarreness of his speech, and a hundred other things that throw the ludicrousness of his candidacy into high relief - does the CEO that presides over not presenting that information support trump?

              Yes. Yes they do. Did they give the equivalent of two dollars to his campaign fund and make sure their name was recorded? No. Oh! Well! Debunked! These are all egregious lies!

              If you understand the point of the demographic, you can acknowledge its factual inaccuracy and its greater truth. Right?

              • pjwestin@lemmy.world
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                1 month ago

                Hey, if youā€™re ever wondering what people mean when they say, ā€œBlue MAGA,ā€ itā€™s this; 8 rambling paragraphs of conspiracy theories about media companiesā€™ CEOs, with no evidence or sources, to justify a debunked infographic. Itā€™s long-winded, ā€œFake News.ā€

                • Optional@lemmy.world
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                  1 month ago

                  Wow you think calling out corporate news owners as trump supporters is a conspiracy theory?

                  My apologies for trying to be reasonable with an explanation.

                  Evidence is in all the headlines about the race; source is THEIR OWN COMPANIES ffs. You need someone to look at it for you too?

                  • pjwestin@lemmy.world
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                    1 month ago

                    You think that media moguls are secretly supporting Trump, even though he has spent 8 years attacking their outlets and even recently threatened to revoke CBSā€™ license, so they would ostensibly be acting against their self interest, while also leaving no evidence or paper trail to prove this support exists. Sounds like a conspiracy theory to me, dude! Anyway, itā€™s been fun watching how far youā€™ll go to avoid admitting you fell for a fake meme, but it seems like weā€™re hitting a wall here, soā€¦bye!