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Well her three kids are all great! Her first pregnancy went complication free, twins needed a c section because umbilical tangles. All healthy as, super sweet, and the eldest is extremely articulate and agreeable for a 2 year old. I don’t usually like kids under 5ish but I’ll hang out with them any day, very low stress relatively!

She did find some people were judgey, but surpringly not the healthcare people. They mostly seemed happy at her not being an antivax weirdo and keeping active!

Best of luck!

Idk what stage you’re at. I showed my sister your post and she said this:

I have no literature to share (didn’t really look and didn’t stumble across anything). Only:

Prenatal vitamins: vitamin intake super important now, especially Omega-3, iron, choline. Naturelo vegan prenatal vitamin was my pregnancy multivitamin of choice

Also, it’s hard to keep iron up. In twin pregnancy I was taking the max dose of iron, but taking it every two days as there’s some evidence that your body produces something (heparin?) in response to iron intake so actually skipping every second day (not doubling the dose either; literally just skipping a day) results in higher uptake. The max recommended dose is 200mg elemental iron. This meant one ferro-grad C, a couple of the bioceuticala iron, and a handful of other iron tablets - with a variety of forms of iron (ferrous bisglycinate, ferrous fumarate, etc)

And I took vegan choline and Omega-3 separately as well

It’s very possible to have a perfectly healthy vegan pregnancy. Hey, I carried twins to 40 weeks!

I postulate that there comes a point where language is required to achieve a higher state of emotion.

Right, just so we’re clear you’re making shit up and clothing it in the language of science.

I am not banning you yet because I’m not sure you quite understand what you just implied but it’s hard not to read this as a claim that humans with different capacities for language don’t reach your enlightened heights of emotional complexity.

That is a very dangerous attitude which has been used to justify absolutely horrendous stuff.

Do you uh, wanna backpedal from that claim?

This is a pretty strange stance to argue. As far as I can see you’re saying:

1. we can’t know another animal’s emotional state
2. some humans rarely have abnormalities in how they feel emotions
3. from 1 and 2 it is possible that emotional capacity is not universal in animals
4. from 3 it is unlikely non human animals are comparable to human animals in emotional capacity

I just don’t see how you get from 3 to 4. It would seem to me given how similar humans are to at least other mammals, specifically in the neural structures we believe to be where emotions arise and in the behaviours we believe to be emotionally driven, we should strongly suspect they have emotions highly comparable to us and not the reverse.

Why would the default assumption be they don’t?

The algorithm assigns weights to nodes in a neural network. These weights are derived by statistical association of tokens in the training data after they have been cleaned.

That is so enormously far from how we think humans learn (you don’t teach a kid to understand theory of mind by plopping them in front of the Gutenberg project and saying good luck, and yet they learn to explain theory of mind problems all the same) that it is just comically farcial to assume something similar is happening underneath.

It is very interesting that llms are able to appear to be conversational but claiming they have some sort of mind with an understanding of maths is as ridiculous as suggesting a chess bot understands the Pauli exclusion principle because it never moves two pieces into the same physical space.

I’m a curmudgeonly physics nerd, it’s very strange being on the side of a debate going “No now come on, that’s way too reductive”

You’re arguing against a position I didn’t put forward. Also

Seems like a pointless distinction, you were told it so you believe it to be the case? Why can’t we say the LLM outputs what it believes is the correct answer? You’re both just making some statement based on your prior experiences which may or may not be true

This is what excessive reduction does to a mfer. That is just such a hysterically absurd take.

Yep. You’re smarter than everyone who found it insightful.

By grabthar’s hammer, what a put down!

Yeah this is the exact criticism. They recombine language pieces without really doing language. The end result looks like language, but it lacks any of the important characteristics of language such as meaning and intention.

If I say “Two plus two is four” I am communicating my belief about mathematics.

If an llm emits “two plus two is four” it is outputting a stochastically selected series of tokens linked by probabilities derived from training data. If the statement is true or false then that is accidental.

Hence, stochastic parrot.

Idk, my mum was born in Poland and came over to aus as a teen. She still seemed horrified, but also she was big on “assimilation” (as the country was at the time).

One of the points in my waking up to carnism was when I mentioned an interest in hunting rabbits (a so called invasive pest here) over dinner with my family as a late teen.

My father expressed an incredible disgust at the idea of hunting, made some comment about sadists or something. The rest of my family were more reserved but similarly aghast, that I would be willing to participate in the process by which meat, which we were eating, was created represented some sort of character flaw.

Yet at the time we had gone fishing, and I had done work experience on a farm. I volunteered at the school farm and had raised broiler chickens and helped load them onto a truck to a slaughterhouse.

It made me realise how utterly disconnected we all were and how the people around me were utterly repulsed by the violence required for their pleasures.

I moved out shortly after and went pescatarian largely due to the soul searching that prompted. Becoming vegan later when I realised Nirvana lied to me.

isn’t it just? My favourite is “While 99% of all meat comes from factory farms, no one eats that meat.”

Not a single person I’ve ever spoken to about veganism, not at demonstrations or privately, has ever admitted to eating factory farmed meat.

Is it all some bizarre welfare system? the butchers/supermarkets/delies just buy it from the farmers and throw it out?

You don’t think this list is comedy? Baffling!

Tofu and tempeh are cheap, the rest are junk foods largely marketed towards lactose intolerant people and carnists with a guilty conscience.

Standard plant based food is like bean or lentil stew. Not hotdogs except molecular gastronomy.

Could you be more explicit? Like what are the foods and clothing etc suggested by militant vegans that are luxury goods?

So meat eaters and strawberry eaters are privileged? I am unsure of your point here?

It is true that not eating strawberries and not eating meat are both accessible outside the global north or w/e.

Are you vegan, because all of those second paragraph things are associated with veganism.

Well idk about taco bell cause I’m not a seppo but literally when I told me sister I was going vegan and asked if she had advice she said “Sour patch kids and oreos are vegan”

Did you know about this before searching it out? Their other activities?

How many articles did it get in major papers approx? How many days reporting?