Yet another unnecessary accelerationist in a world where the brakelines were cut years ago and the bus has been speeding up all on its own.

“I can fend for myself” is the extremely naive thought that cut those brakes. No human is an island, and everyone is connected to everyone, past and present.

And “good, they should suffer because they deserve it” is the extremely evil thought that placed the brick on the accelerator. It’s the same thought that drives decisions like defunding healthcare.

So, congrats on being a part of the problem. Enjoy cheering for the suffering of humanity.

I mean, being a manufacturing-based economy certainly didn’t keep oligarchs at bay in the early 1900’s US. On the flip side, a coder or a banker can strike just as well as a machinist.

It certainly did work against the oligarchs. Most of our labor laws, OSHA, etc were written in the blood of workers of the early 1900s. Blair mountain, steel workers, mass unionization… the oligarchs learned a lot of painful lessons that lead to massive quality of life improvements across the country.

Blue collar workers have to show up or nothing gets done. Their work happens in a physical location that can be picketed, and they all need to live close enough to that location to show up for work. The money of their employers is literally in the hands of blue collar workers on the job. Materials and bodies need to move in and out every single day or no money can be made that day.

The information, service, and gig economy does not run on the same principles. An Ubereats driver has never even seen his “employer” and the only real qualification is a drivers license. Coders can be fired or replaced with H1B’s or overseas contractors, and they often work remotely or in local satellite offices that the C-suite sees once a year. Physical bank locations are not headquarters or vaults - they’re sales floors for offering loans and credit cards.

None of these people can physically stop their employer from making money, and so they have much less power in the employer-employee relationship than traditional labor forces had until now.

You don’t get to use your identity as a defense against being called an asshole. Anyone can be a bigot. You talk about people who you claim to identify with like they’re deviant, lesser, and worthy of oppression. It’s not about fucking pronouns and you know it. You openly admit you want these people to suffer.

You’re a bigoted asshole and don’t belong in any community that relies on inclusion. Goodbye.

I used to live in a city. Doesn’t matter where I live, the queer community is only accepting of a certain kind of queer. Which I’m not.

You do not get to paint the whole community like this. The community is only accepting of a certain kind of person: the kind of person that accepts and supports the community.

You’re not doing that. You’re stirring shit up, acting like some members of the community haven’t earned their place, and throwing around some extremely inappropriate stereotypes like your alleged experience is indicative of the community as a whole.

You want to be homophobic and stereotype people like this, and you want to be transphobic and dismiss their struggles up to now as “having it too easy”?

And you fucking come around saying they deserve to be oppressed? They “have it coming” because they “wouldn’t listen to their elders”? You want them to be oppressed?

Then you’re absolutely right. You’re not the kind of person the community accepts. Get the fuck out.

It seems more to me like the TQ wants to rid themselves of the LGB with their pronoun tirades and temper tantrums.

Woah, hey, what the fuck? Here I thought you were having a sincere overreaction but no, this is all just transphobia, and possibly homophobia. You’re basically ranting about the whole community being non-monogamous? Sexually deviant?

“Terminally online whiny piss babies”? You want to reject the community? You think they’ve all just had it easy? You live a “lonely rural life” and think you can talk about how people have had it easy? Paint the whole community red like that but it’s okay if you say “(at least by me)”?

Transgender people have had it easy?

Absolutely not with this shit, I do not give you any more benefits of the doubt or good faith. You are hitting all the bigot talking points regardless of what you identify as.

You do not get to divide the community at a time like this. Trying to stir shit up and turn LGB on TQ and vice versa, yeah, you need to GTFO.

Blaming any victim for their oppression is wrong.

I’m sorry but that is the end of this conversation. You want to blame people for their own oppression. You are not speaking as their ally, you are speaking as their enemy.

Great. So, you think your fellow community members have a behavioral problem, and you’re blaming them for their impending oppression. Again, not the words of an ally. To them, or to anyone in the community.

Blaming any victim for their oppression is wrong. Especially if you know what it’s like to be oppressed. It’s not their fault, and how dare you suggest that it is.

You think they’re disrespecting their elders and they don’t know how good they have it? Do you genuinely not see a problem here? Have you ever heard someone say anything like that and thought “hmm, actually they have a point”? Especially when you don’t actually know how good they’ve had it?

I’m saying that since they want to fake being oppressed so hard they should get a taste of what real oppression feels like.

This is your problem. You need to face it. Those are not the words of an ally. Saying that a member of your community deserves to feel the same oppression you did? Absolutely not. You are not speaking as their ally, you are speaking as their enemy.

You’ve got a lot of “kids these days don’t know how good they have it!” energy, and it’s really not helping you here or anywhere.

Seriously, you’re complaining about these people fighting all the wrong battles, but here you are still fighting in that exact battle? In your eyes, they’re wasting their time turning on each other… but here you are screaming at them and about them? Do you think the things you are saying in this thread will prevent discrimination and violence? Do you think you’re changing minds?

I understand you’re rightfully pissed off about a lot of things. But you really are drawing a line in your life and saying "I struggled. They didn’t. They don’t have the right to question me. Which isn’t necessarily true and also isn’t a very productive line of reasoning.

Thanks. I’m glad you can discuss these issues that involve the rapid and violent upheaval of people’s lives with apathetic disinterest. Boy do I feel stupid for caring more than you, eh?

… Then you’re for immigration, but also oppose immigration to the United States right now? Presumably because of economic reasons? That’s just being against immigration with extra qualifiers.

The whole point is that neither immigration nor deportation - more immigrants coming in or more immigrants leaving - neither will result in any material change to the problems you have with the nation’s current state. Wave a magic wand and deport them all, healthcare won’t be cheaper the next day. Wave a magic wand and lock the southern border from coast to coast and your food won’t be cheaper either.

Immigration is not causing any of the significant and systemic problems that the United States is currently facing, and so there’s no sense in… what, exactly?

Waiting for the problems to get better before you would accept more immigrants? Some utopian moment in time when you would actually be for immigration in the United States? What would that time look like to you, and why would current or future immigration stand in the way of reaching that point?

I’m saying that the US has so many issues that mass immigration will never help when you can’t even take care of the people who are already there.

That’s the thing, though. You can take care of the people already here. There is more than enough wealth, natural resources, land, food, energy… you name it, we have more than enough of it and can make more than enough of it. The point is the people in power choose not to. One or one million, immigrants will not take away anything from the lives of citizens that hasn’t already been taken away.

If you could wave a magic wand and deport every last immigrant, how would that take care of the citizens here? Crime would go down? No, statistically they commit less crimes per capita. Taxes would go down? No, as a group they pay far more in taxes than they could possibly take back in government spending.

The immense amount of wealth being hoarded by the powerful is already not being spent on improving people’s lives, and every last dime of it will continue not being spent on improving people’s lives.

You won’t get another slice of the pie just because someone leaves. You won’t end up with more value to be shared among less people… you will just end up with less people. People whose absence will actually make everything cost more, meaning the slice of the pie you do already hold will be worth less than before.

I understand illegal immigration benefits the immigrants, thats a ridiculous point to feel the need to make.

Really?

Im concerned that illegal immigrant labor is akin to H1b or prison labor, where the worker has diminished rights and is abused more than other groups.

Are you concerned about them or not? If you’re concerned about their quality of life, we should talk about how their quality of life here is better than it will be if they are deported. If you’re not concerned about their quality of life, then don’t pretend to be concerned and then change the subject when challenged on that concern.

And when you have one of the largest land masses on the planet, and some of the most valuable natural resources, and a declining birth rate and increasing childhood mortality, and the cost of your health care is entirely caused by artificial scarcity… hm. Maybe the problem isn’t immigrants.

I’m concerned that illegal immigrant labor is akin to H1b or prison labor, where the worker has diminished rights and is abused more than other groups.

Did it occur to you that even with the diminished rights and abuse, they still chose to immigrate? And that they still wish to stay?

You’re not protecting them by deporting them. If you want to protect them and help the economy, give them a path to citizenship so that they can continue to work essential jobs while receiving the labor protections of citizens that - oh, whoops. Those protections are being threatened too. Almost like the people doing the deportations have no interest in protecting people and are actively harming them.

Contrary to the circles we reside in, most of the US despises any act of “socialism”. It’s ingrained in the culture after 50 years of waging a cold war against an entity that was associated with everything on the left because of propaganda.

America’s mainstream opinions on “socialism” were not caused by America’s history of arms races, thermonuclear development, and proxy wars across the globe, nor do they persist because of it. Many Americans have experienced a rapid and shocking shift in opinion toward Russia - the great red enemy of the cold war. This is still happening despite Russia making no major political reforms in recent history, no significant revolution in government, and actively trying to reclaim soviet territories.

If this was possible within a single generation, it also should be possible for public perception to change on socialism. There is no need or purpose to wait for people to die - their ideas live on.

No, decades after the cold war ended, the cause of the hatred of socialism in this country persists for one simple reason: Americans have become convinced through a tremendous amount of propaganda that Government is bad.

Not just America’s government as an entity - we could all find some common ground there if it were that simple. No institution in particular, not the Administration, the federal or state legislatures, or the town halls, or the mayor of the small village who’s really just doing it as a part-time gig - no, all of these are but parts of the greater problem - Government itself is seen as bad.

Not the flashy boots on the throats of “radicals”, not the ICE agents storming the hospitals - that’s not governing, that’s just violence. No, what’s “bad” are the mundane, boring, tedious things the Government does because someone has to.

There is this wild knee-jerk reaction to governance itself that dates back to good ol’ Reaganism of course.

“The most terrifying words are… I’m from the federal government, and I’m here to help.” (Reagan, 1986, paraphrased)

Spoken by the man specifically in charge of the federal government.

America was supposed to have been founded for the people, by the people, and with the people in mind. But now the people believe not only that the government isn’t here for them - it can’t be.

They believe we shouldn’t try to make things better through governance because governing can’t be good. it’s always “inefficient”, it’s always “stealing your hard-earned money”. To them it’s million dollar pens in space, and spraying cat piss on drunk rats, and paying for hormones and birth control and school “litter boxes” - in short, to many Americans, any money the Government spends is by definition theft and waste, especially if it’s hard to understand.

Changing their minds on socialism involves first changing their minds on the government. Not the capital A capital G American Government, but the nature and purpose of governance itself.

But on the bright side, I believe our opportunities to change those minds are only growing from this moment. The hateful idealogies, the demagogues, the simple answers - they’re all a net negative on society. But the fact remains that the government is being challenged and ripped apart both internally and externally. Institutions are crumbling as we speak, traditions are being broken, and precedents are being set and shredded left and right.

People have the opportunity to realize that government itself is malleable, and that if it can be changed for the worse so quickly and horribly, then it can also be changed for the better. We have the chance to convince them that we as a society can take all of this power and use it for our personal and collective good, if only the right minds and the right ideas take root.

These overreactions are reminding me of the J6ers, though.

Ah, yes. Truly a classic. “The people angry about the blanket pardoning of all the violent insurrectionists are just as bad as the violent insurrectionists!”

Lol.

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