Pilgrim

Nobody said that you have to care about animals in the same way as you care for humans. Nobody said that they’re on the same level. You just literally said that you don’t care about their suffering, which sounds insane to anyone.

You talk about “humane killing of animals without any necessity”. Does “humane killing” sound humane to you? Humanely treated? Why do 99% of people claim they prefer “humanely treated” animals, when appr. 99% of all animal products come from factory farming? That’s the opposite of humane. Nothing in the industry is humane. They all try to make money. I don’t have to explain to you how you do that, I assume

It’s not a common moral framework. But we don’t have to discuss this any further. I see that you’re not really open for that discussion.

That sounds like you have that “if it doesn’t affect me, why would I care” mind, which would be crazy. But I might have got that wrong what you just said.

To not care about cruelty is not “normal”. To not have empathy for animals is far from normal. If I go into the city and show people videos of animal abuse, they’d be shocked. They have empathy.

So I wonder, why do you say that you don’t care about cruelty? Is that just in regard to animals? Or do you also not care about other people suffering?

And for the second part: I disagree. People tend to care about the environment even though they consume animal products. It’s just that they don’t care enough so that they’ll change their way of living. They prefer not to go out of their comfort zone. They want to consume. And they put personal wealth over the wellbeing of nature and other individuals if you ask me

What exactly do I reject?

I think the main difference between you and the people from your prehistoric roots is that you have many other choices. You don’t have to continue to hunt down many animals, because you can choose to buy certain foods and you also have the choice to buy plant based foods.

Whenever you have the choice to buy plant based foods, there is no chance to argue that purchasing animal products in that case is somehow ethical.

The only way to defend hunting for your own survival is when you don’t live in a place where you have many foods available. Like, let’s say you are on an island where there is no shopping centre or anything. You obviously need to hunt to survive. But if you live somewhere where many plant based foods are available, saying that killing animals is justified in order to get food makes no sense at all. And is certainly not ethical (Deciding to kill an individual being without any necessity can never be ethical)

I think there could be a game changer. If I remember right, they already found a way to reproduce cheese and other dairy products in the lab, which can’t be distinguished from the original. The only problem is that it’s such an act to start it in Europe under the European Parlament. I think it was “precision fermantation”

For example, companies like Perfect Day are pioneering this technology, using fermentation to produce milk proteins without cows. By feeding sugars to microflora, these organisms create the same proteins found in cow’s milk, which can then be used to make products like ice cream, cheese, and yogurt. This process reduces greenhouse gas emissions by up to 97% compared to traditional dairy farming, offering both environmental and ethical benefits​(InsideHook)​(ScienceDaily). https://www.insidehook.com/food/precision-fermentation-milk-dairy https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2024/08/240801121845.htm

May I ask this… Would you decide to gradually change your lifestyle to a less cruel one when the vegan arguments seem to be correct or would you rather wait for a law against eating meat?

Which reveals how little they understand about what they’re talking about

But you can just simply ask them if they want to say by that that cutting an onion is in principle the same as cutting the throat of a cow. They’ll row back then I assume

Well, I agree, but the fact that non vegans tend to have certain deficiencies more often doesn’t mean that a vegan diet is 100% safe. So again, I agree but it’s not like a good argument if you ask me

Edit: Oh sorry, this was one year ago. I didn’t see

Same here. We were worried as well, although everything seemed fine because we had expensive supplements all the way. However, my wife then decided to eat eggs again because she was too scared that she was not eating enough of certain nutrients (this was based on scientific research about vegan diets during pregnancy and one key nutrient was cholin, which is high in eggs, plus extreme cravings my wife started to have for eggs out of nowhere during pregnancy)

I have to admit that we broke with it in pregnancy.

But the reason was that we searched for the latest information about eating vegan during pregnancy and it was a bit confusing. Some sources said it’s save when you have some food supplements (which we had), but others said there is always a certain risk especially in regard to cholin. So that’s why my wife decided that she will eat eggs. She also had this inner desire for it during pregnancy that you typically get when you miss out on any nutrient (like when your body needs iron, you might get this inner desire for foods that are high in iron) and that was gone within a week after our child was born.

And I say “we broke” because it was our decision. I personally didn’t change anything. We found a local source for the eggs where the circumstances for the chicken could be described as the best circumstances you can have, although I don’t know where they get their chicken from (probably from the industry)

Btw, I always said that I wouldn’t change anything, not even in pregnancy if there is no latest evidence proving the vegan diet to be very risky, but when you are at that point, you wan’t it to be 100% safe. So that’s why we figured that we will do it that way

Break it for the child’s sake? What do you mean by that? As long as you keep it safe for the child, there is no issue and therefore no reason to not be vegan during pregnancy

For me, the questions is rather “what supplements do you consider a ‘must take’ during pregnancy” :)