I cannot wait until this lands in most distros. So much of the Wayland noise will go away.
X11 is a mess. Wayland is a mess.
Solution: Create a new standard (always works so well)
If it would be a standard intented for Unix ideology and not business requirements of X11 (35+ years is a long time) or Wayland (RedHat is one company with its own interests, sometimes contradicting, say, mine as a Unix user), then it could work well.
X11 paradigm I like more than that of Wayland, but it could use some clearly incompatible changes.
Mir is there
Mir is wayland-based now :p
damn you beat me to it
xkcd 927
How, exactly, is Wayland a mess? It has a good legacy window compatibility layer and is solving a lot of problems X11 had. Seems perfectly alright to me.
Ehhh, any time I try a new distro I realize after a half dozen apps dont work, that its because its using wayland by default. X11 just works, wayland is a mess.
Let’s all use the WindowServer from SerenityOS!
Reject GUI, return to console
can’t wait to try Blender in CLI
Framebuffer? Oh, but mouse… GPM? But it probably doesn’t work in a framebuffer…
what’s GPM ?
It’s a mouse in console, essentially. A mouse in the tty
Browsh sadly is non-functional without a display server. It has no way to click on links.
what does “rootfull” mean?
XWayland normally runs x11 apps seamlessly (more or less) in Wayland
XWayland rootful spawns a window which is like a virtual monitor running a full x11 session inside it. You spawn apps inside of the window using the DISPLAY variable
Its confusing that we also use ‘rootful’ to refer to a process running as the root user
You need to wander through links a bit to find it but https://ofourdan.blogspot.com/2023/10/xwayland-rootful-part1.html talks about the rootful and the recent changes.
Can someone please eli5? Why do I never hear anything about the window manager in windows and macos? Why is all the fuss on our side on Linux? I’m genuinely asking.
A compositor is a program responsible for displaying program windows and things like the desktop on your PC. On Linux, the compositor is just a program that starts when the system starts. There are multiple desktop environments available, like Plasma or Gnome, each comes with their own compositor, you can choose which you want to use.
Wayland is a protocol that the programs use to communicate with the compositor. Everyone decided to use Wayland, because if each compositor had their own protocol it would be silly, eg some programs would work only on Plasma or Gnome.
It’s a replacement for a much older X11, which could no longer keep up with requirements of modern apps.
You never hear anything about compositors on Windows or Mac because there’s only one available, you can’t choose.
Actually, Windows does allow you to use an alternate “compositor”— a feature which is used quite frequently in the industrial/embedded space. Windows calls them “custom shells”. The default is Explorer, but it can be set to any executable.
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/iot/iot-enterprise/customize/shell-launcher
Oh man, brings me back to blackbox / xoblite on my old XP machine.
I remember using notepad to change the config files, no auto formatting or error checking.
Had no idea what I wanted out of it but I loved the minimal aesthetic.
Thank you so much. Is there a reason why we have so many issues with scaling and font rendering and the other two OSs don’t (I’m not sure if they and they hide it, I don’t know). I tried gnome on my pc and the font got very blurry when I set the scaling to 175% for my 27" 4k monitor, switched to x and fraction scaling just disappeared. Why don’t the other two OSs have this issue?
It is being discussed because we’re in the middle of the transition from X to Wayland. Before there wasn’t much discussion. In a few years when it settles out there probably won’t be much discussion.
Windows and Mac have never had a choice. There might have been significant changes to a window manager layer, but it would have been part of a larger version upgrade. Like between windows 3.1 and 95 or OS 9 to OS X. The visible changes would be closer to desktop environment like KDE and Gnome in Linux.
Thank you so much. One more question, why do we have so many issues with scaling, font rendering and all stuff and windows and macos just do it? Why aren’t we doing similar?
I’ve seen enough blurry software on Windows to know this is not quite true 😅
That’s actually true. I’ve seen it, too. So, I guess I’ll take my question back. Lol
In addition to what the others have said, windows has already had its big paradigm change (“similar” to the change from x11 to Wayland that is happening) in the past. It was around 2007 with windows Vista. They also didn’t get it quite right on the first try, but because Microsoft can do whatever they want, and in Linux you must convince the community that something is better, it was easier for them to just change everything under everyone’s nose.
Sure. I can’t wait to finally make the switch (Nvidia).
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Red Hat’s Olivier Fourdan just announced the stable release of XWayland 24.1 as the newest feature release for this X.Org Server code allowing X11 clients to work within the confines of Wayland compositors.
XWayland 24.1 brings explicit sync support that’s long been in the works throughout the stack.
The explicit sync support brings the most noticeable improvements for those using the NVIDIA proprietary Linux graphics driver with the R555 beta driver due out imminently with that driver-side support.
Also of NVIDIA relevance in XWayland 24.1 is removing the EGLStream back-end now that NVIDIA has finally been supporting GBM across their recent driver versions.
XWayland 24.1 also ships a number of rootful improvements including HiDPI and fractional scaling for the rootful mode, among other improvements.
The brief XWayland 24.1 release announcement can be found on the Xorg mailing list.
The original article contains 160 words, the summary contains 138 words. Saved 14%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
Hopefully in Arch already
It is in testing:
https://archlinux.org/packages/?sort=&q=xwayland&maintainer=&flagged=
