I don’t care if anyone has a Xiaomi, Oneplus, Samsung, etc. Each brand is using a modified version of Android, and they chose to be compatible with each other. But for example the “blue vs green bubble” drama is a thing specifically because of Apple locking their unsuspecting users into a closed ecosystem. And it sure isn’t Android’s fault for not being compatible with it.
The more power a company like this gains, the worse will it be for the whole industry.
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Isn’t android built off Linux?
It technically is, but “Linux” in Android’s case is meant as the kernel.
In a rather unorthodox way, yes.
Android is one of those rare examples of a Linux kernel not being paired with GNU tools. I believe Android wrote their own versions of all the tools they wanted.
The kernel is also extremely locked down by default. They very intentionally designed the OS in such a way that every facet of the kernel is kept abstracted away from you. It’s about as black-boxed as you can get, to the point where the fact that it’s Linux underneath is almost meaningless.
iOS is a unix-like operating system too (but doesn’t use the linux kernel… also, linux isn’t really an operating system, it’s a kernel
And MacOS is BSD :)
“blue vs green bubble” drama is a thing
Ha ha ha in one single country full of narcissistic idiots
😂
I promise it’s not a thing, mate
Yeah nobody actually gives a shit about that except zoomers and news stations pretending like it’s a thing
Even as an (older) zoomer in the US, this was never a thing for me. No one cared what phone you used. If you had an Android you wouldn’t be in iMessage group chats but no one judged you for it.
Well considering here in Czechia (the country that’s 90% “middle of fucking nowhere”) it’s scary that a third of active phones are iPhones, how does anyone except the people living in big cities afford this shit? People around me are getting iPhones, but it’s always like 4-5 year old 11s and 12s, literally the shittiest investment you can do
Also can’t wait in a couple of years when this number will probably go up and iMessage will take over any other messaging app
I mean, even those old iPhones have better software support than a lot of low-end/budget Android phones. The iPhone 11 still has iOS 17 and will probably get security patches for another year or two (assuming it gets dropped with iOS 18, maybe Apple will try pushing it another year).
I got a phone that’s 2/3s of the price, started on android 13, got 14 recently, yeah it’s the same but the advantage of it being newer means I have a bigger battery, 90hz display, and more that you just don’t get with a 4-5 year old phone
Yep, also not a thing where I’m from.
Fanboy wars are exhausting, stupid, and unproductive.
You will be a happier person when you stop giving a shit about what phone or operating system someone else uses.
OPs point is also that they’re exhausting. If you try and make a legitimate criticism of Apple’s monopolistic behaviour as a trillion dollar corporation, then you just get flamed by Apple fanboys.
Depends why you made that criticism. I hate Apple as much as the next guy but the post makes it seem like the creator is the one who typically initiates a targeted and unwarranted attack at the user specifically (“…accuse him of supporting an evil…”) as soon as they see an iPhone in their hand and then gets mad when they retaliate
Exactly. As an iphone user (and linux sysadmin, compartmentalization is not that hard), i agree with your criticisms of apple most of the time. They just make the better phone IMHO, and I say that as a nexus 4, nexus 6p, pixel XL, oneplus 7 pro, and oneplus 9 pro user. Yes i used custom roms, no I do not have the patience to treat my phone as a linux project anymore.
I regularly have android users go out of their way to try and fight me over this, and they always claim I must not have used android. It’s annoying to field over and over.
Idk where they got a fanboy war when people here are like “fuck google” and “fuck Apple” if anything it’s anti-fanboying
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Lukewarm? All my homies hate Google.
Google is no better.
At least there’s choice with Android. I’d much rather it was possible for FOSS phones to actually exist but in the meantime the lock-in with Apple is an absolute non-starter, as is basically everything about their UX philosophy.
It really just depends on if you prefer customization or reliability.
For example, I’m an apple boi because I like that every app in the store is made specifically for an iPhone (which is easy for devs to do since there’s little variation). It leads to better maintained and performing apps because devs can optimize for the device it’s running on.
On android, you have way more choices, which some people prefer. But for myself, I get really annoyed when I launch an app and it fills 95% of my screen, but not all of it, because my phone is slightly taller then the 2000 other variations out there. It’s much harder for a dev to optimize their app when there are so many variables to account for on android.
Neither phone (or company for that fact) is better. They serve different demographics of users is all.
Have you used android in the last 10 years? Im not the kind of guy who install 100 apps per day but i did not encounter this issue for a VERY long time.
I haven’t had one myself for a while, really anymore I just see it when watching vids on the flip phones or tablets it seems.
But android gave me the reason to switch (the messy apps) years ago, and apple hasn’t given me a reason to switch back yet.
It very well might be fine now, but until apple does something similar enough to push me to switch again, I won’t know haha.
Im running an android phone from 2016 with android 13 and last week security patches. Smooth as silk, no google, no ads, battery lasts 10h SOT. That’s the reason why ill never switch to Apple as daily driver (I have 1 provided by my company)
@AnagrammadiCodeina @BReel which phone?
Lenovo p2. Bought used in summer 2017 actually. Never swapped battery
If Apple let my install alternate OS. I might consider the hardware.
Google is a bit better, Google allows you to both side load and unlock the bootloader. On those 2 things alone gives them at least a couple notches above Apple. Not to mention Android is designed around allowing you to customize things.
That being said, Google isn’t some savior, they’re still a giant corporation doing giant corporation things
I didn’t mean Android is no better than iOS, I meant Google is no better than Apple.
Objectively speaking, Apple is a less evil company than Google.
I don’t think that’s a thing that can be said objectively. How evil a company is is entirely subjective.
Android is
As a person who has never owned anything but android…you can’t possibly think Google is any less evil.
https://slrpnk.net/comment/6754380 Nobody is forcing me to buy their phones or their stock version of android though. A lot of people manage to live just fine with fully de-googled roms, installable even on google’s own phones.
And do those phones that have been degoogled solve the issue of all the slave labor along the production chain?
And even if you install a ROM… You’re still supporting them. You’re funding Google.
I’m sorry dude but you’re comparing apples to apples. They’re both horrible disgusting companies, and there really is no picking the morally correct side.
Google is not a good company by any means, but when you buy their Pixel it’s your device. You can unlock its bootloader and install whichever OS you like. And even with the stock Android you’ve always been free to do anything. There are no features built into Android that lock you in and force the other side to buy one as well. Whereas Apple’s iMessage is available on iPhones only, peer pressuring others into buying one. Saying that buying an iPhone and an Android phone is morally the same is dishonest at the least. Especially since Android is just an open platform and each manufacturer is using their own modified version. Brands such as Xiaomi or Huawei went even beyond the software skin and optimized their ROMs to run especially well with their own hardware. If you buy an iPhone, you are forcing those around you into buying a specific device made by a specific company that loves playing Monopoly a bit too much.
Things you buy aren’t moral choices. If there is no ethical consumption under capitalism there must neither be any moral consumption under capitalism either.
Lol seriously. He’s literally trying to frame Google as the morally correct choice as opposed to the teensy bit less evil choice.
I will admit the openness is why I chose one disgustingly evil company over the other. You do have a point there. But there is no getting over the fact that Google is doing serious damage in many ways and just because you managed to uninstall all their spyware when you bought a pixel or any android device you are still funding that. You personally help them grow and become more of a problem for the Internet at large.
And I like that you completely glossed over the biggest point… That they both profit off of slave labor. And of course child labor.
But hey open software means slaves are not as bad right?
Like I said, an Android phone does not equal a Pixel made by Google. If you are concerned about where the resources used to manufacture your device are from, get a Fairphone and flash Lineage/CalixOS on it. That way you are “supporting” Google in the smallest possible way and you can still use a smartphone.
More than you are implying. An Apple product means you have to buy from Apple. At least with android you can order a Fairphone. Which, while not perfect, is significantly better in the “slave labor” category.
Yes, because not all Android phones are made in the same factory. There are brands with next to no slave labour.
“blue vs green bubble” drama
is not real… it’s some bullshit marketing thing… nobody cares what kind of phone you have
It absolutely is real.
Source: my own experience for the last four years
Then you are hanging around with highschool kids that care what shoes you wear. I guaranty nobody working and living a proper life gives a shit on text bubble colours
They’re kids and plus most of it is subconscious. None of them are mean or anything about it. I can assure if I was to ask them, they’d all say it’s totally fine and they don’t mind at all and they understand, but still they end up sending one less text because they have negative feelings associated with it and thus their brain brings it up a little less.
Maybe nobody working gives a shit right now, but if this is how the kids are growing up, it’s gonna keep becoming a bigger problem
Then that is an education issue. Part of our curriculum was decoding advertising and marketing used to manipulate consumers. it seems this has to be readded at schools.
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If you wamted privacy you would not be using the OS delivered messaging app that IOS can read anyway to flag CASM. And the group can screenshot and share. if you actually wanted privacy you would be using a tool like Session.
what have you experienced?
peers being frustrated because I have an android… being left out of group chats because people don’t wanna break their existing imessage groups… having to constantly bother people about not sending videos/images over text because they become a blurry mess… frequently apologizing just for having an android…
And also a general awareness I’ve developed that I have been left out of things… harder to know because, well, I was left out.
Mind you I am probably in the single worst location for this in terms of mindshare. By my unscientific observation, ~0.5% of students had an android at my school.
yeah, i was a poor kid in a rich school…
i really don’t think it’s the phone…if it was 1860, you’d be excluded for have a subpar quill and ink…
is not real…
tell that the social cliques in high school. its marketing and its real.
source: kids.
it’s marketing thus seems more real than it is.
there will always be kids who treat poor kids bad for not having the cool new expensive stuff…
but that’s a classist problem, not limited to phones.
see also: jeans, shoes, makeup, e-bikes, pokemon, everything else
also, all the really cool kids use signal messenger and don’t use stock text messaging apps…
oh, understood. just saying that the marketing of social shame has been strategically exended into the colour of your text bubble pixels… from the “think different” company.
signal gets installed on every phone in my house, but the kids are drawn to where the other kids are and Apple snobbery is rife in the area I am in.
well your kids are really cool…
i wonder how much is actually apple, and how much is standard classist kid stuff…
there was a recent hydroflask craze with the kids around here… with kids chanting “sks” (sound at the end of hydroflasks)
but, i think that’s just because they’re nicer quality and expensive…when i was a kid there was a big deal made about jean brands in my school…
I would say the majority of it is just the usual human monkey brained reactionary garbage that our species has always dealt with. the concerning bit is how our own brains have been weaponized against us with untold amounts of money and time expended in learning how to manipulate enough of us to extract and realocate “value” from the many to the few.
I think we are collectively building a benificial immune reaction to this invasion of our selves, but the attack is so pervasive and so persistent that it is, quite literally, mentally and physically debilitating - certainly by design. will we just exhaust ourselves into submission or change paths and try something that does not culminate in a species ending orgy of consumption and conflict? I have no idea, but very few of our possible futures look particularly hopeful to me at the moment.
I do, however, try to hold on to some thread of optimisim - I need a reason to get up in the morning.
I appreciate the dialogue, fellow internet denizen :-)
If it isn’t the phone, it is shoes, or other stupid shit. people grow up and the realize that none of that stupid shit matters
Who fucking cares what high schoolers think?
its their lived experience and they are the future adults of our world.
if the insane amount of micro-targeted manipulation and pressure these kids face on a daily basis does not concern you, then your lack of empathy is self evident and there is nothing else to be said to you.
Yeah, because we never experienced that as kids ourselves
No, you didn’t, or at least not at this level.
Sure, TV ads and even some old games had ads which were targeted to specific demographics (their audience), but modern digital ads are targeted to vulnerabilities of specific individuals (using location, search, purchase history, etc.). They’re also shown much more often and baked into products which are specifically designed to target your subconscious psychology (using nudging, gamification, etc.) so you use them more.
The kind of data required for the level of ad targeting done now did not exist more than maybe 15-20 years ago.
You’re completely glossing over the fact that there was a whole different set of problems my generation had to deal with in the 90s. But sure, only modern kids ever struggled. We’ll go with that.
Obviously every generation has its struggles, but I was never disagreeing with that. If you treat this as “just another generational problem,” you are fundamentally missing the point. It’s as you say, a whole different set of problems.
Micro targeted ads are hard to ignore because most of the time they’re influencing our subconscious state. This isn’t just another generational issue we’re facing, it’s fundamentally shaping the way people look at the world without them even being aware of it. It’s not limited to just the current generation, because everyone interacts with technology. However, targeting inner psychology will obviously impact people with less developed brains more than it will impact adults, and we’re beginning to see the effects of that already with Gen Z.
Yeah, defnitely not a thing in Brazil. We get rich idiots bragging about their iPhones, sure, but the text bubble thing never came over.
… Broadly because we don’t. Text in Brazil. We use WhatsApp or Telegram.
SMS/MMS was never really a thing here.
It’s really weird that this is what you imagine when someone buys something from a giant corporation that isn’t your preferred giant corporation.
For like the fiftieth time, no one that matters cares what phone you bought, what OS it runs, or what color your texts are on other phones you didn’t buy. As a person that keeps buying iPhones, I don’t care what you buy. Please feel free to stop caring what I buy.
My sentiments exactly. I cannot possibly fathom wasting mental energy on such a mundane thing.
Ah yes, the classic centrist position. Why does it matter if the government performs mass surveillance if you have nothing to hide? Why does it matter if I drive a huge and inefficient car? I can make all these choices secure in the knowledge that I never do bad things so they never occur as a result of my actions.
I’m not sure you’re in the right thread here, unless ios and android are political identities now.
It’s a phone, man. Not an F-350 rolling coal with a Trump flag.
Swipe on. It’s okay if you don’t understand how this stuff works.
As an Android user, Android phones with Google Play Services are no better - in fact I’d say they’re probably worse
No at least you can side loade and install other app stores out of the box with android. It`s far from perfect but still way better.
FDroid for open source apps.
News flash, you can do that on iOS too.
Edit: downvote away, my custom apps on my iPhone run great without jail breaking. Love all the wrong info on Lemmy. Good stuff.
Don’t you have to jailbreak to do that
Nope. You can install any app with developer license. You can also jailbreak. Don’t bother replying to this comment, I’ve read enough brain dead replies already.
Which costs an additional $100/yr for something that’s free on any other platform.
Naw you can use a service like maplesign for $10
With developer license
Doesn’t seem fair to pay for the luxury of being able to install your own software
Not really, no
Okay! You’re wrong but that’s alright. I’m running custom apps on my device without jailbreaking.
Yeah, the customs apps, for which you pay a developer license for. Which need to be reinstalled every so often because Apple doesn’t want you to use apps like that.
They run so great though /s
Your phone privacy is owned by your isp and the OS maker. You arent doing the world any better being on android. Google is fucking awful too. Both are awful and should be broken up. They are way too large and powerful and only having 2 phone OSes in the world everyone runs made by 2 greeeeedy ass corporations is the problem neither of you can solve gloating about which evil corp you give money to to interact with modern society.
I do miss Symbian smartphones. Nokia was the shit back then
Checkout sailfishOS. You can run android apps on it.
I have one of each. I guess I’m Chaotic Evil.
This was exactly my point, I’m not lining up for an iPhone or an android. The lack of choice is what drives me to buy apple because when the time comes for a new phone it’s one or the other and I prefer the experience on iPhone. Really I would rather not give my money to either but there are no viable alternatives. I would not criticize anyone for buying android or apple, it’s a matter of what kind of shit sandwich do you want to eat, and it’s terrible.
Install GrapheneOS , it is degoogled, and security focused. if you want play store it runs inside a sandbox so Google isn’t in all your biz. Also has Mic and Camera shutoff options for the paranoid types.
So i support Google by using an open source OS? Just because your phone uses Android dosent mean it has any Google services included. Since Android itself is open source, there are many Android OSs that dont include any Google Software.
Technically, you support google when you buy a phone that ships with licensed android including all Google’s shitware preinstalled
Yeah, but unfortunately it is impossible to buy a phone without that
Thats my point.
Used or refurbished phones already payed that once and will not pay it again. So technically, you are not giving a cent to google.
Network effect. Same reason why you should use firefox (or alts) as much as possible over chromium (or alts).
bro, the are android ROMs… there are ROMs whose entire thing is privacy and removing anything google. Saying they’re equal is making a bad faith argument “Apple and Google are evil so Android is evil” 😩
Android is much more open than Apple ever will be. They aren’t even in the same universe.
Show me a single Iphone running a custom ROM with no Apple shit on it.
There is plenty to criticize about Apple when it comes to anti-consumer and anti-competitive business practices…
But if you’re gonna talk on the level of “evil” and “freedom”, Apple’s greatest sin is their supply chain.
And then there’s Google, whose evil I would place somewhere between [Apple’s] pseudo-monopoly and [Apple’s] pseudo-slavery. At least Apple is a tech company. Google is a surveillance company that just happens to make tech so they can monitor you more closely.
Working with the shared-space AR APIs in iOS and Android really drove home the difference in their priorities. The iOS SDK only allowed us to share AR data through a local, SDK-managed connection. The data is opaque, can’t be directly serialized, and doesn’t work anyway if you try to persist/distribute it yourself. Android, on the other hand… They wanted us to upload your AR data to Google-owned servers, where they could do Google-knows-what with the scans of your living room.
It’s sad that we’re at a point where you have to either pay for your privacy, or pay with your privacy. But we can at least not be naive about it. Android is more interoperable, more prolific, and more lenient with third-party code. And that’s because it’s a good strategy if you’re a surveillance giant. Not because it’s good for consumers.
Edit:
Got a couple of comments that are like “Um, actually, Apple is still subject to government surveillance and exploits”.
Let me be clear: You should not expect any off-the-shelf product to shield you from intelligence agencies and state-sponsored hackers. You will have to radically change your life to accomplish that, and “Apple or Google?” won’t even be a relevant question for you.
And I’m not saying Apple doesn’t do shady monitoring for their own commercial purposes.
All I’m saying is that Google’s core business model is shady monitoring, and that directly influences their decisions regarding Android. So painting it as the commoner’s hero against the greedy walled-garden warden is a dangerous proposition.
There are no good guys here.
There’s some hardware, SDKs, and back-end services that you can evaluate on their own merits if you’re capable.
But if you want to just look at business practices:
- There’s one company that doesn’t want to integrate with anything outside of their own products – because that’s good for their bottom line.
- And there’s one company that wants to integrate with anything and everything – because that’s good for their bottom line.
Don’t assume the difference is benevolence.
Constantly amused at how hard android users defend their choice and act like it’s iPhone users doing the same.
Always reminds me of the way right wing / Trump supporters behave. They are obsessed with liberals and the Democratic Party in then same way android users are obsessed iPhone users and Apple.
As an iPhone user, I spend no time thinking about android users and I certainly don’t post threads looking for others to validate my purchase.
For me, an Android for personal, iPhone for work.
One of them is a phone that mostly works the way I want it to; the other is a phone that…mostly works the way I want it to.
I never think about iPhones until I’m forced to enroll one into my MDM and Apple makes me use their terrible Apple Configurator 2 or some iPhone user lightheartedly mentions my green bubbles. As always the squeeky wheels are gettin’ greased.
As an Android user, I’ll offer my side to this:
If I had a dollar for every time a friend or family member asked, “Why don’t you just get an iPhone?” I could probably buy the newest iPhone. Added pain that I’m Gen Z in the US where something like 80-90% of people my age use an iPhone.
I swear most of the time people treat having an Android phone as something that needs some sort of defense because they think there’s no reason anyone would possibly consider buying anything other than an iPhone.
And why do they make those offers? Perhaps because you’re complaining about your device and the problems are things that Apple users never encounter?
And that doesn’t explain why android users complain in pseudo-anonymous forums about Apple users. Apple users aren’t making memes about how android users are foolish.
If it’s because real life friends and family suggest they get an iPhone, that’s incredibly passive aggressive.
To your first point, it isn’t really an “offer.” I don’t think I’ve ever complained about having an Android phone, because I’ve genuinely liked my Android phones way more than my old iPhone. It pretty commonly comes up whenever communication is involved though because I end up being blamed for not having FaceTime, iMessage, etc. even though most of those problems come from Apple only supporting a messaging standard from the early 90s with Android phones.
To your second point, there are memes though. They’re probably not as common on here because the demographic that uses lemmy (or even Reddit to some degree) is more likely to have an Android phone for various reasons. Look up “android camera meme” if you want a clear example of something that usually isn’t even true.
I’m not going to go after anyone for using an Apple product, because I can see why someone would use one over Android. But Apple tends to attract people that will blindly defend their bad decisions (no headphones jack, no charger, slow refresh-rate screens on everything but the $1000 model, etc.).
This isn’t to say there aren’t similar people defending companies like Samsung, Google, etc. Apple just attracts these people at a whole different level. This meme is obviously hyperbole but to be fair you could make this meme about any obnoxious fan group and it would be just as true.
Edit: fixed a grammar mistake, clarified a sentence with italics
I always see android users bitching about non android phones. On the other hand, I NEVER see iPhone users who give a shit about android or complain about them. Interesting….
The corporate oligarchy of unmerica working exactly as designed, divide and conquer
They are all kind of terrible right now, at least for me. I hate what the big companies are doing, and the smaller projects such as Fairphone simply aren’t good enough yet. Guess I’ll try to make my existing one last for as long as possible, though that was already the plan.
i feel you, the fairphone 4 works well enough for me though. a lot of software/hardware bugs are yet to be ironed out fully, but fairphones are steadily getting better.
although the 6th gen needs to improve a lot, the 5’s launch was disappointing to say the least.
I also have a Fairphone 4, but I have encountered no significant bugs I can remember.
Installed LineageOS on it though, with microG, instead of /e/.
Can you tell me what issues you had?
My FP4 was affected by the “ghost touch” hardware bug, i ended up getting a replacement screen after contacting support. (it never fully went away, it has a few spasms every once in a while)
also the crashing while connected to 5G put me in a few pickles. sometimes when receiving a call while watching youtube the call’s notification bubble will take up to 5 seconds to appear at all.
it seems to also ocasionally forget that it has a SIM card installed, though that sim has been in use for 10+ years, so i can’t say if that’s the Fairphones’s fault.
the smaller projects such as Fairphone simply aren’t good enough yet
What is not good enough with Fairphone ?
Display, battery life, performance, supported bands, software reliability, camera quality, etc.
I know I am one of those weirdos that asks for a lot from a mobile device, but I want something that can act as a high speed hotspot for 5 devices and a desktop environment at the same time, while playing back high resolution media and charging fast. This kind of thing has always been possible with Samsung’s flagship, but now every generation it feels like yet more is removed compared to the older one. I’m still on the S21U and while I’m not very happy with it, I haven’t seen anything better, including the new Samsungs.
Maybe I should set my sights lower, but it just frustrates me because these are all things my S9+ could do in 2017.
Power users get screwed over now.
Their 7 (?) years of software support is kind of misleading to me because they stop getting chip-level security updates after something like 3-4 years due to the specific Qualcomm chip they use. Not to mention the chip is on the slower side of today’s phones, let alone phones 7 years from now.
I can see how others might be fine with that though, just my 2 cents.
I cant be the only one who dreams of apple and all their pattents becoming foss.
Itl never happen under capitalism but damn would it be nice.
