My point was that China should start actively supporting independence in Hawaii, start doing freedom of navigation drills around there, fund political parties in Hawaii that promote independence, and fly native Hawaiian politicians to China for training.
And you can keep doing whatever mental gymnastics you like, but the reality is that that Taiwan is internationally recognized as being a part of China, and if China decided that it wanted to end the farce by force it could do that any time it likes. That’s the real world that you should try engaging with.
If the people of Hawai’i had a completely different form of government and separate foreign relations and the public popularly supported independence, why would they not be allowed that? None of those are true though. Independence is not popular in Hawai’i. The Native population would like more autonomy and recognition which they should get but that is a fast cry from wanting independence.
Well, to be fair, they wouldn’t be allowed that. We had a bit of a war about that sort of thing, and the supreme court maintains that a state has no right to leave the union. But you’re exactly right that independence isn’t popular in Hawaii.
And that would make no sense at all, since the Hawaiian independence movement is so tiny as to be nonexistent. But again, that has nothing to do with this discussion.
You’re back to repeating yourself. I’m not the one doing mental gymnastics here. Riddle me this, Batman: if Taiwan is de facto part of the ROC, then why do we get our chips - the irreplaceable ones, not the 555 timer knockoffs - from Taiwan and not the mainland? Why aren’t semiconductors produced in the PRC common in the global supply chain? Why do US companies invest so much money in Taiwanese fabs? Why does only Taiwan and South Korea have the ability to make chips at a 5nm process or smaller?
In short, why can we live without the PRC’s fabs but not Taiwan’s? It’s because for all intents and purposes, they’re different countries. They just share a fantasy that they’re not, and we go along with it because it’s not worth the trouble. Until one of them quits dreaming and actually takes the other one over, they’re going to be two different countries.
I love how you argument is, well we actually slaughtered most of the indigenous population, so it’s not a problem anymore. Quintessentially American thing to say.
When did I ever claim that? When did I ever justify the actions of the US in Hawaii? You are making a lot of assumptions about my opinions and have nothing to back them up with.
I stated that it was irrelevant to the actual discussion about Taiwan. Remember the topic we were actually discussing? If you want to talk about Hawaiian history, then make a separate post about it.
You literally just said that Hawaiian independence movement is so tiny as to be nonexistent, why do you think that is, where did you think all the people go?
Meanwhile, it’s relevant to the discussion of Taiwan because US is the sole reason there is a problem in Taiwan. If you can’t understand how China funding and supporting and independence movement in Hawaii would be analogous to what US is doing in Taiwan, then what else is there to say to you.
The people didn’t “go” anywhere. They’re still there. Their descendants make up around 10% of the population. They’re US citizens and the majority of them aren’t part of any independence movement. Did some die during the period where the US overthrew their monarchy? Of course! It was an armed conflict, after all. Did we slaughter all or even a significant percentage of the natives? No, we didn’t.
We have slaughtered native populations elsewhere. You want to point fingers at the US, there’s plenty of places to point. But your Hawaiian argument reeks of ignorance.
And again, that has nothing in common with the PRC/ROC division.
You claim that the US is the only reason Taiwan doesn’t want to be part of the PRC. Is that what the PRC government tells its people? That the Taiwanese desperately want to dissolve their government and submit to the PRC but us evil Americans won’t let them? Why not ask some Taiwanese people about that?
You admit that there is a “problem in Taiwan,” but maintain the illusion that the PRC controls Taiwan? You can’t have it both ways. Either you control it, or you don’t.
There is nothing else you can say to me, because you ran out of arguments a while ago and keep trying to push some narrative about Hawaii. You haven’t answered any of the questions from my last comment. You haven’t given me any reasons why Taiwan is really part of the PRC in any practical sense, because there isn’t one.
Should really read that link I gave you up there from an actual native person in Hawaii.
The only thing that reeks of ignorance is claiming that US isn’t the only reason Taiwan issue exists. Where did the money for separatist movement come from exactly, who created the sunflower movement, and props up the DPP excatly?
US is the problem in Taiwan, after the civil war in China, US decided to prop up the side that lost and actually referred to Taiwan as an unsinkable carrier. That’s the problem in Taiwan.
There is nothing else I can say to you because it’s pretty clear that you’re either woefully uninformed on the subject you’re attempting to debate or just a shill for your empire.
Why? I’ve spent a good deal of time in Hawaii, know quite a few native people personally, and have read up on Hawaii’s history. Yet some link from someone that searches out and posts nothing but anti-US articles all the time is supposed to change my mind? I don’t think so.
Going back to the actual topic (Remember the topic? About chip availability and Taiwan being the source of chips, and how Taiwan is de facto its own country? Yeah, that one.):
You claim that the US is the reason for Taiwan not being part of the PRC. You also say Taiwan is part of the PRC. So what is it? You can’t have it both ways.
Oh well, since you’re so well informed on Hawaii, are you denying anything the link says or do you think that’s just normal stuff happening there that you endorse?
The actual topic is that Taiwan is not its own country, and you continuing to repeat that over and over here isn’t going to change reality. The issue isn’t between Taiwan and the rest of China, that can be resolved any time. The issue is between China and US. Right now China expects that it will be able to push US influence out of Taiwan in a peaceful way, and as I’ve earlier explained, that’s precisely where things are likely to go next year when KMT gets in power. However, if China decides they’ve had enough of US messing around in their country and violating their sovereignty then they will resolve the issue militarily. These are the only two possible outcomes here.
My point was that China should start actively supporting independence in Hawaii, start doing freedom of navigation drills around there, fund political parties in Hawaii that promote independence, and fly native Hawaiian politicians to China for training.
And you can keep doing whatever mental gymnastics you like, but the reality is that that Taiwan is internationally recognized as being a part of China, and if China decided that it wanted to end the farce by force it could do that any time it likes. That’s the real world that you should try engaging with.
If the people of Hawai’i had a completely different form of government and separate foreign relations and the public popularly supported independence, why would they not be allowed that? None of those are true though. Independence is not popular in Hawai’i. The Native population would like more autonomy and recognition which they should get but that is a fast cry from wanting independence.
Well, to be fair, they wouldn’t be allowed that. We had a bit of a war about that sort of thing, and the supreme court maintains that a state has no right to leave the union. But you’re exactly right that independence isn’t popular in Hawaii.
And that would make no sense at all, since the Hawaiian independence movement is so tiny as to be nonexistent. But again, that has nothing to do with this discussion.
You’re back to repeating yourself. I’m not the one doing mental gymnastics here. Riddle me this, Batman: if Taiwan is de facto part of the ROC, then why do we get our chips - the irreplaceable ones, not the 555 timer knockoffs - from Taiwan and not the mainland? Why aren’t semiconductors produced in the PRC common in the global supply chain? Why do US companies invest so much money in Taiwanese fabs? Why does only Taiwan and South Korea have the ability to make chips at a 5nm process or smaller?
In short, why can we live without the PRC’s fabs but not Taiwan’s? It’s because for all intents and purposes, they’re different countries. They just share a fantasy that they’re not, and we go along with it because it’s not worth the trouble. Until one of them quits dreaming and actually takes the other one over, they’re going to be two different countries.
I love how you argument is, well we actually slaughtered most of the indigenous population, so it’s not a problem anymore. Quintessentially American thing to say.
When did I ever claim that? When did I ever justify the actions of the US in Hawaii? You are making a lot of assumptions about my opinions and have nothing to back them up with.
I stated that it was irrelevant to the actual discussion about Taiwan. Remember the topic we were actually discussing? If you want to talk about Hawaiian history, then make a separate post about it.
You literally just said that Hawaiian independence movement is so tiny as to be nonexistent, why do you think that is, where did you think all the people go?
Meanwhile, it’s relevant to the discussion of Taiwan because US is the sole reason there is a problem in Taiwan. If you can’t understand how China funding and supporting and independence movement in Hawaii would be analogous to what US is doing in Taiwan, then what else is there to say to you.
The people didn’t “go” anywhere. They’re still there. Their descendants make up around 10% of the population. They’re US citizens and the majority of them aren’t part of any independence movement. Did some die during the period where the US overthrew their monarchy? Of course! It was an armed conflict, after all. Did we slaughter all or even a significant percentage of the natives? No, we didn’t.
We have slaughtered native populations elsewhere. You want to point fingers at the US, there’s plenty of places to point. But your Hawaiian argument reeks of ignorance.
And again, that has nothing in common with the PRC/ROC division.
You claim that the US is the only reason Taiwan doesn’t want to be part of the PRC. Is that what the PRC government tells its people? That the Taiwanese desperately want to dissolve their government and submit to the PRC but us evil Americans won’t let them? Why not ask some Taiwanese people about that?
You admit that there is a “problem in Taiwan,” but maintain the illusion that the PRC controls Taiwan? You can’t have it both ways. Either you control it, or you don’t.
There is nothing else you can say to me, because you ran out of arguments a while ago and keep trying to push some narrative about Hawaii. You haven’t answered any of the questions from my last comment. You haven’t given me any reasons why Taiwan is really part of the PRC in any practical sense, because there isn’t one.
Should really read that link I gave you up there from an actual native person in Hawaii.
The only thing that reeks of ignorance is claiming that US isn’t the only reason Taiwan issue exists. Where did the money for separatist movement come from exactly, who created the sunflower movement, and props up the DPP excatly?
US is the problem in Taiwan, after the civil war in China, US decided to prop up the side that lost and actually referred to Taiwan as an unsinkable carrier. That’s the problem in Taiwan.
There is nothing else I can say to you because it’s pretty clear that you’re either woefully uninformed on the subject you’re attempting to debate or just a shill for your empire.
Why? I’ve spent a good deal of time in Hawaii, know quite a few native people personally, and have read up on Hawaii’s history. Yet some link from someone that searches out and posts nothing but anti-US articles all the time is supposed to change my mind? I don’t think so.
Going back to the actual topic (Remember the topic? About chip availability and Taiwan being the source of chips, and how Taiwan is de facto its own country? Yeah, that one.):
You claim that the US is the reason for Taiwan not being part of the PRC. You also say Taiwan is part of the PRC. So what is it? You can’t have it both ways.
Oh well, since you’re so well informed on Hawaii, are you denying anything the link says or do you think that’s just normal stuff happening there that you endorse?
The actual topic is that Taiwan is not its own country, and you continuing to repeat that over and over here isn’t going to change reality. The issue isn’t between Taiwan and the rest of China, that can be resolved any time. The issue is between China and US. Right now China expects that it will be able to push US influence out of Taiwan in a peaceful way, and as I’ve earlier explained, that’s precisely where things are likely to go next year when KMT gets in power. However, if China decides they’ve had enough of US messing around in their country and violating their sovereignty then they will resolve the issue militarily. These are the only two possible outcomes here.