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Not really “powertripping”. Just pathetic. Consider this a notice to avoid feddit.org… I’ve unsubbed and blocked the instance.
We can’t dehumanize fascists for their choice to dehumanize everyone for things outside their control though, because that would be mean, and hurt their sociopath feefees!
Europe stool idly by throughout the 1930’s “tolerating” fascism, and the Nazi’s killed over 100 million people. Don’t make the same mistake as the radical centrists of history. Fascists will not afford you the same tolerance or courtesy.
Are you claiming that a person protesting against Israeli indiscriminate slaughter of Palestinian men, women and children must be an antisemite?
No. What are you talking about?
The only thing he did was make an equivalence between Nazis snd Zionism. That comparison itself is already tantamount to Holocaust denial and thus antisemitic.
Zionism is the right of the Jewish people to self determination. Denying the Jewish people this human right is antisemitic.
If by self determination you mean establishing an ethnostate in stolen land
Zionism is nationalism. Mearly calling it a right to self-determination is disengenious.
On the other hand I agree that implying an equality between Zionism and Nazism (as in the facist ideoligy) downplays the severity of facism and the Holocaust in particular.
Yes, Zionism is Jewish nationalism, similar to Polish, Greek, Kurdish nationalism.
Yes, Zionism is Jewish nationalism, similar to Polish, Greek, Kurdish nationalism.
Although I don’t disagree with your core position, nationlism ≠ fascism
“Nazism is the right of the Aryan race to self determination. Denying the Aryan race this human right is anti-German bigotry”
That’s disgusting antisemitic and you know it.
Your denial of the Jewishness of all those people who are Jews and are against Zionism or simply do not agree that Zionism represents them, is the true antisemitism here.
It’s not up to you and it’s not up to Zionists to decide that Zionism represents all Jews, it’s up to all Jews and a lot of them think Zionism doesn’t represent them, hence “Zionism” is not at all equivalent to “Jew” and hence anti-Zionism is not at all equivalent to antisemitic.
The previous poster’s metaphor is spot on illustrating your inherent anti-semitism in how you defend your beloved flavour of ethno-Fascist political ideology: Zionists claim that they represent an entire ethnicity - even against statements of members of that ethnicity that they do not - and then claim that criticism of Zionism is actually an attack on the ethnicity, going so far as explicitly calling actual Jews who are critical of Zionism “anti-semites”, all of which is exactly as the Nazis did using “the Arian Race” (including the detail of accusing members of the Arian Race of being “against the Arian Race” or “not real Arians” when they voiced opinions critical of Nazism) which is why the previous poster’s metaphor was perfect - how you and your ideological brothers position yourselves in relation to the Jewish People and use that self-proclaimed relation in your “arguments” is straight out of a Himmler manual on Propaganda.
You’re the only Racist in this room and by making arguments in the same style as Nazi Propaganda you out yourself as a rabid, Nazi-style kind of Racist.
If you’re actually interested in the history of Zionism, opposition to it, anti-Zionism, and different Zionist schools of thought. This is a good introduction.
The Anti-Zionism of today isn’t represented by Bundism.
I didn’t do that. I only pointed out, that there’s a noticeable group of antizionists in the US, who only use their Jewish ancestry as a weapon against Israel, but are otherwise disconnected from the Jewish culture. Falls in the same category for Americans though to claim they’re Italian because their great-grandma was Italian, but they don’t speak the language, follow customs, or have even been to Italy. The question of who is a Jew is a very long one.
Naturei Karta and similar religious nutcases are of course Jews. I pointed out two two fringe groups that are used as tokens by antisemites in an attempt to cover their hate.
The Verband nationaldeutscher Juden was a Jewish organization that supported the original Nazis. Do you object to them being antisemitic?
The Jewish people are notorious for arguing and you can find someone espousing all kinds of outlandish ideas.
My argument was the vast majority of Jews support the existence of Israel as a state and safe place for the Jewish people.
It isn’t always, but typically. Only hating 90% of Jews, except the good ones, still is antisemitic.
If you’re against the existence of all nation states, then of course being anti-Zionist isn’t antisemitic. As soon as you wave a Palestinian nationalist flag, this doesn’t apply anymore obviously.
There are also anti-Zionists, objectively to Israel being a secular state with an Arab Muslim and other minorities. They want a theocratic monarchy, so a far more extreme goal. The tokens from Naturei Karta and such fall into this category.
Anti-Zionism means being opposed to the existence of Israel. Israel is home to half of the worlds Jews, most of whose ancestors arrived as refugees from persecution. Destruction of the state of Israel means persecution, exodus, death, flight, and death for the Jewish people. That is antisemitism in practice.
You don’t know enough about national socialism.
If you want to go back to that time, consider that it was the Zionist Jews who escaped and survived the Holocaust.
Your whole equivalence of Nazism to Zionism is pure antisemitism an vile.
Disliking Nazis is anti-German bigotry and you know it. Being anti-genocide is only motivated by hating the people doing the genocide and ethno-nationalism.
May have been in XIX or in the first half of XX century. At the moment it is a deeply racist movement denying Palestinians the same rights Jews enjoy.
Also Israeli government, supported by Zionist parties is definitely including nazis. So while I don’t argue that zionism is equivalent to nazism I can see where he was coming from.
You are misrepresenting Zionism. It has always had different ideological strains.
If you believe in a two state solution, congratulations you are a Zionist.
Demonization, delegitimization, antisemitism.
Stop talking rubbish. Criticism of Israel and/or zionism is not antisemitic.
Not necessarily, but it often is. As soon as you demand the destruction of Israel, or deny the Jewish people the right to self determination, it’s antisemitic.
What the hell are these arguments, and why are you getting upvotes?
These are very common arguments. You’re simply ignorant about this discourse.
This is the shaky part.
It is quite fair to make a comparison between Nazism and Zionism as long as someone frames Zionism as an attempt to eliminate Palestinians.
Sure you can lie and frame things in bad faith. Pure antisemitic logic.
It depends i guess. I am of the opinion that Zionism itself isn’t fascist and is simply nationalism. However,any on this site disagree. Although, i admit there are many genuine pro-genocide Zionists and i think you do believe so as well, right?
Maybe Netanyahu is a fascist or maybe not. I don’t know.
It’s nationalism just like Polish, Irish, Korean nationalism.
I don’t support genocide. I support peaceful coexistence, with two states still being the most viable option.
Bibi is a very shrewdly successful politician and a criminal. I despise him and oppose most of his policies. Call him a fascist if you like, he evidently cooperates with Kahanists. Calling Kahanism fascism isn’t an exact fit, but fair enough.
I think your position is misunderstood because we’ve been able to find common ground on this issue.