1. Post in [email protected] attacks the entire concept of AI safety as a made-up boogeyman
  2. I disagree and am attacked from all sides for ā€œposting like an evangelistā€
  3. I give citations for things I thought would be obvious, such as that AI technology in general has been improving in capability compared to several years ago
  4. Instance ban, ā€œpromptfondling evangelistā€

This one Iā€™m not aggrieved about as much, itā€™s just weird. Itā€™s reminiscent of the lemmy.ml type of echo chamber where everyoneā€™s convinced itā€™s one way, because in a self-fulfilling prophecy, anyone who is not convinced gets yelled at and receives a ban.

Full context: https://ponder.cat/post/1030285 (Some of my replies were after the ban because I didnā€™t PT Barnum carefully enough, so didnā€™t realize.)

  • mindbleach@sh.itjust.works
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    3 months ago

    Lemmy.ml is the most ā€œso you hate waffles?ā€ forum I have ever seen. As you said - theyā€™ve got a dummy in mind, and youā€™re just the face tacked onto it. Your own words are like 10% of the argument happening in their heads. Trying to pick apart ā€œthatā€™s not what I fucking wrote,ā€ without wasting six paragraphs theyā€™re also not going to read, or falling afoul of the blatantly one-sided ā€œbe nice or elseā€ threats, is an endless psychic vampire attack.

    I was on reddit for fifteen years. Iā€™ve been here for two. I am anything but averse to arguing, even with complete buttheads. But ā€œbe civilā€ is the biggest gift to trolls anyone has ever devised. It lets them spit whatever dishonest contrarian nonsense they want - and the obvious and necessary ā€œoh fuck offā€ is what gets the boot. You will participate in legitimizing their hot take, because some cult of moderators thinks trolling is means name-calling. Like nobodyā€™s ever rude for a damn good reason. And also ā€œthis is abusive, I am leavingā€ counts as rude, because go fuck yourself.

    • PhilipTheBucket@ponder.catOP
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      3 months ago

      Not that long ago, I got in a huge argument with someone on lemmy.ml, and they were furious that I refused to play by the ā€œrulesā€ of engaging at length with every one of the 3-5 new things they would bring up in every new comment while refusing to provide sources for any of it, and also saying that any of the sources I was citing needed to be ā€œcontextualizedā€ and so basically, didnā€™t count.

      Eventually, he tried to pull rank on me saying he teaches this stuff IRL and listed his number of students, as a way of saying why I needed to listen to him. As it happens, I was a teacher of teachers for a living, and when I pulled rank back on him, he wasnā€™t interested in the conversation anymore.

      It only ever goes one way. Always. Itā€™s always that you need to play by the rules, but they do not.

      Edit: I should say, to the credit of the lemmy.ml mods, nothing I was saying got me deleted or banned, even though we were dealing with a hot-button topic. Maybe the moderation is improving. I was seriously a little surprised and impressed that they left it alone, Iā€™m sure they got reports.

      • mindbleach@sh.itjust.works
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        3 months ago

        and also saying that any of the sources I was citing needed to be ā€œcontextualizedā€ and so basically, didnā€™t count.

        Usually while demanding you read three volumes on theory, like theyā€™re owed a book report.

        It only ever goes one way. Always. Itā€™s always that you need to play by the rules, but they do not.

        This is where I disagree with you: theyā€™re being consistent. They think youā€™re doing what theyā€™re doing. This is what it looks like, when you win their game. You beat this guy. But that doesnā€™t mean he switches teams. Thatā€™s not how games work. Itā€™s how arguments work. And however argument-shaped his sentences were, he was never telling you why he went from premises to conclusion. He was just shuffling cards.

        • PhilipTheBucket@ponder.catOP
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          3 months ago

          Hmā€¦ I think for this guy, it was a little more complicated than that. For most of the lemmy.ml people, I think youā€™re right. I think this guy was very sincerely believing in what he was saying, he just had a sort of self-referential way of looking at reality, where anything that didnā€™t agree with him was CIA propaganda, so thereā€™s no way he could ever bootstrap his way out of what he believed. I didnā€™t get the vibe that he was just arguing in bad faith all around, I think he really believed it. Thatā€™s why I talked to him for as long as I did.