I feel bad because while I don’t reach for react (I usually pick Vue or vanilla), people’s comments about react is really depressing.
There’s a LOT of shitty react code. And when you see beautiful react implementation, it’s like a work of art.
Unfortunately, react projects have been given to by bootcamps grads with 6 months of experience and it’s like the blind leading the blind…
I wonder if it’s like PHP. Lots of people shit on it because they had to futz around in a garbage project written by garbage developers, fully unaware that it can be elegant in the hands of a professional team who cares about code quality.
I wonder if it’s like PHP. Lots of people shit on it because they had to futz around in a garbage project written by garbage developers, fully unaware that it can be elegant in the hands of a professional team who cares about code quality.
You can apply this reasoning to any [web] technology. The reason it’s so visible for react, and previously PHP, is simply popularity.
Yep, finding people who understand React is hard. The majority of people who say they’re an expert in React are either coding bootcamp fresh grads or someone who’s entrenched in writing shitty React so by having them join there’s basically no difference in skill with a fresh grade hire or a fourth year college student intern.
What’s wrong with bootcamps? Honest question, as I’ve been learning to code from a python book and an “expensive” udemi course that was on sale for 20 bucks
I’d never tell people I know how to program though. I’m definitely still learning
Sometimes, if all you know is how to use a hammer, everything will look like a nail.
That’s the impression that I got from working with several bootcamp graduates. Most people who enroll are usually people who think that there’s a lot of money to be had being an SWE. However because usually bootcamps are 3-6 months max you’re just being taught how to use a specific tool to accomplish a general use case that’s already been solved many times. However, as an example in my workplace, we deal with a lot of R&D PoC projects and develop our own internal solutions due to security or law requirements from our clients. So if you’re stuck when working in one of our projects due to something, there’s no post related to that in StackOverflow.
In one case, during development I found a bug in one of the third party libraries that we use and after creating an issue in their GitHub, even the library’s maintainer is stumped. We decided to create a new internal library that solves the specific problem we’re having.
If you’re a bootcamp graduate working on that kind of project, it can be shocking.
Having a college degree can help set up your mindset work in a software engineering project.
Although it’s not necessary, because I’ve known a lot of great dev with no CS degree. But it’ll take a lot of time working in projects with a lot of different cases. Maybe it’s just that my workplace doesn’t really have a suitable kind of project for people with not a lot of experience. However lately we’ve hired a lot of fresh grads with good grades and it’s been a breeze when onboarding them to our engineering standards.
We’ve had several hires from bootcamp but there’s only one who’s a good engineer.
Take this with a grain of salt though, as lots of people can testify that they had a good experience with bootcamp grads. So maybe I’m the one who’s unlucky. YMMV.
Ah. See, I’m using bootcamps as a intro type of learning. I’ve also been just doing my own thing by learning how to make scrapers and all that (even though that’s kind of cheating because it’s just scrapy) but I’m trying to learn the fundamentals of the language so that I don’t need to just Google “how to do this” I want to be able to just do it
Not necessarily “wrong” but a weakness is that they tend to focus on concrete language syntax and skimp on abstract software design, and data structures and algorithms. The result is a programmer who knows how to write code, but may struggle on larger projects or more complicated problems, compared to a computer science or software engineering graduate.
Of course I’ve met developers from applied courses and boot camps who are driven, passionate, and gifted who have gone on to make excellent system designers and software architects, but generally speaking, knowing how to code alone does not make one a software developer.
The problem with some of the comments here is that even “properly” written React CAN hit a performance bump, and optimization is a rather rare skill no matter the programming context (kinda due to little time given to it, so everyone is out of practice).
But I don’t know which ones are the ones talking about that, and which ones are just people annoyed at anything Node in general.
I feel bad because while I don’t reach for react (I usually pick Vue or vanilla), people’s comments about react is really depressing.
There’s a LOT of shitty react code. And when you see beautiful react implementation, it’s like a work of art.
Unfortunately, react projects have been given to by bootcamps grads with 6 months of experience and it’s like the blind leading the blind…
I wonder if it’s like PHP. Lots of people shit on it because they had to futz around in a garbage project written by garbage developers, fully unaware that it can be elegant in the hands of a professional team who cares about code quality.
PHP is great for building APIs to use with React or Vue. I’m happy I have so much back end experience with both good and bad code.
My motto: if a Junior dev can’t figure out what I’m doing after two weeks of training, I’ve failed.
I’ll put that to my soul.
You can apply this reasoning to any [web] technology. The reason it’s so visible for react, and previously PHP, is simply popularity.
I find react stupid because of JSX, Vue is much cleaner easier.
ofc you can create a mess with any tool or framework
When I started my programming journey, JSX was what made me stay sane.
Yep, finding people who understand React is hard. The majority of people who say they’re an expert in React are either coding bootcamp fresh grads or someone who’s entrenched in writing shitty React so by having them join there’s basically no difference in skill with a fresh grade hire or a fourth year college student intern.
What’s wrong with bootcamps? Honest question, as I’ve been learning to code from a python book and an “expensive” udemi course that was on sale for 20 bucks
I’d never tell people I know how to program though. I’m definitely still learning
Sometimes, if all you know is how to use a hammer, everything will look like a nail.
That’s the impression that I got from working with several bootcamp graduates. Most people who enroll are usually people who think that there’s a lot of money to be had being an SWE. However because usually bootcamps are 3-6 months max you’re just being taught how to use a specific tool to accomplish a general use case that’s already been solved many times. However, as an example in my workplace, we deal with a lot of R&D PoC projects and develop our own internal solutions due to security or law requirements from our clients. So if you’re stuck when working in one of our projects due to something, there’s no post related to that in StackOverflow.
In one case, during development I found a bug in one of the third party libraries that we use and after creating an issue in their GitHub, even the library’s maintainer is stumped. We decided to create a new internal library that solves the specific problem we’re having.
If you’re a bootcamp graduate working on that kind of project, it can be shocking.
Having a college degree can help set up your mindset work in a software engineering project.
Although it’s not necessary, because I’ve known a lot of great dev with no CS degree. But it’ll take a lot of time working in projects with a lot of different cases. Maybe it’s just that my workplace doesn’t really have a suitable kind of project for people with not a lot of experience. However lately we’ve hired a lot of fresh grads with good grades and it’s been a breeze when onboarding them to our engineering standards.
We’ve had several hires from bootcamp but there’s only one who’s a good engineer.
Take this with a grain of salt though, as lots of people can testify that they had a good experience with bootcamp grads. So maybe I’m the one who’s unlucky. YMMV.
Ah. See, I’m using bootcamps as a intro type of learning. I’ve also been just doing my own thing by learning how to make scrapers and all that (even though that’s kind of cheating because it’s just scrapy) but I’m trying to learn the fundamentals of the language so that I don’t need to just Google “how to do this” I want to be able to just do it
Not necessarily “wrong” but a weakness is that they tend to focus on concrete language syntax and skimp on abstract software design, and data structures and algorithms. The result is a programmer who knows how to write code, but may struggle on larger projects or more complicated problems, compared to a computer science or software engineering graduate.
Of course I’ve met developers from applied courses and boot camps who are driven, passionate, and gifted who have gone on to make excellent system designers and software architects, but generally speaking, knowing how to code alone does not make one a software developer.
The problem with some of the comments here is that even “properly” written React CAN hit a performance bump, and optimization is a rather rare skill no matter the programming context (kinda due to little time given to it, so everyone is out of practice).
But I don’t know which ones are the ones talking about that, and which ones are just people annoyed at anything Node in general.
If you like vue, try svelte(kit). Not that it’s better, but another tool in your toolbox. Svelte stores are pretty nice.