I have finished watching Star Trek Next Generation and Deep Space 9 following a friend’s recommendation. I enjoyed both shows and started watching the other one, Star Trek Voyager.
So far, I’m not finding it as enjoyable as the other two. I want to try to see it through the eyes of someone who enjoys the show, maybe it will also help me understand why it feels different somehow.
The concept of a lone ship without Federation support stuck far away from home is compelling. Throughout the series, they go through some shit.
The best episodes are when the pretty ship is just super-wrecked.
Year of Hell is one. The episode where they discover that the entire ship and crew are replicas and they’re slowly coming apart is another.
That’s the one with the pocket watch? I really responded poorly to casting for Janeway, and she had so much screen time that I don’t remember the ep as a whole, but if it’s the one where the ship is all but sliced apart then I think that’s one I’m totally thinking of.
This is it for me as well. I’ve always been drawn to the concept of self-sufficiency.
I think DS9 was pretty developed already by the end of TNG, so once it started there wasn’t that much left to figure out. This can be seen by the TNG crew visiting DS9 towards the end. TNG, however, felt a little more uncertain in the first season in that the actors didn’t have their characters nailed down yet, and it shows.
I suspect that Voyager might be a bit more like TNG in this regard - the concept was a bit more uncertain when they started. However, it does improve massively as it moves on.
I for one really like the temporal war storyline. And 7of9 is a great addition even if the writers’ intent was mainly that of providing boobage.
I can’t speak for everyone of course, but as someone who genuinely was not fond of DS9 (not because of writing quality or anything like that, it was great for what it was in that regard.)
After DS9, Voyager had the audacity to try to be FUN again. It offered a really good mix of some serious episodes with some downright goofy episodes. For every “Year of Hell” or “Equinox”, you would get an episode where they were attacked by giant viruses, or a good old fashioned holodeck program goes haywire episode.
It wasn’t afraid to dive into Shlock after DS9 tried to be sooooo fucking serious.
To me, that was a breath of fresh air.
Also:
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Janeway is easily the best captain overall. She doesn’t give “Picard Speeches” like Stewart of course, but in every other aspect, her leadership is amazing throughout that series.
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Voyager 2 parters were usually epic. This of course comes from the fact that the CGI had come a long way from the TNG days, but with the exception of Best of Both Worlds, I’d put Year of Hell, Equinox and Scorpion ALL better than any other two parter from any other series.
If your comparison is to DS9 and you want “super serious” than yeah…of course Voyager isn’t going to be for you. But if you want something that isn’t afraid to be a little silly sometimes, Voyager is hella-fun.
The worst thing about Voyager going forward is it’s never going to get the kind of remaster TOS/TNG/DS9 got.
It was filmed in the transitional period between film and digital and all the effects weren’t done on film like those series. The masters were done digitally, at broadcast quality.
From interviews/behind the scenes stuff someone would basically have to redo all the editing and effects work from scratch if they got their hands on the raw film. Honestly wouldn’t be surprised if someone is crazy enough to do that. But that’s a ton of work with basically no financial incentive.
I’m sure I’ll be downvoted but good use case for new AI editing tools that are coming out.
Fun Voyager openings, I hear you asking.
This is probably my favourite https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIjOifRG-u8
That’s the episode where the Doctor becomes the “Emergency Command Hologram” in his mind, isn’t it?
At the end when the computer magically makes three pips appear on his collar and Janeway just says “nice touch…”
That’s exactly what I mean. Voyager wasn’t afraid to be a little goofy sometimes. They walked that line really really well without delving all the way into “Let’s do a whole musical episode” or anything.
Yes, I think it is. But not the one where he actually does become the ECH?
The Doctor has added a daydreaming protocol and some aliens who have an AI overlord (they can’t do anything without asking it first) manage to survey the Doctors daydreams but not the inside of Voyager, so they believe the Doctors daydreams to be real.
I think Voyager’s more musical episodes (and Robert Picardo himself) have at least a little to do with SNW eventually getting the musical episode.
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The first season or two are rough. The Kazon stuff is just… Blah, imo. After that it picks up. The character development, I think, is the best part. Mostly the Doctor, if I’m being honest. Later when Seven joins, her character arc is great, too, and while she was definitely supposed to be sex appeal, her actress, Jeri Ryan, crushes it as a character and not just a sex symbol.
I’m guessing the whole Neelix thing is throwing you? He’s definitely incredibly grating, but he’ll weirdly grow on you as the show progresses.
In my opinion, it’s definitely the weakest of the three you mention, but it still has its merits. Even after we leave the Kazon stuff behind, you’ll get a one off episode here or there that just falls flat.
I’d suggest trying to power through a bit longer to see if you can pick up anything you start enjoying. And if not, there’s no shame in not finishing. Not every series hits for everyone and that’s okay.
I’m halfway through season 2. I am interested in seeing where they take some characters. I think your suggestion makes sense, I’ll give it a bit more time, especially considering some of the surprises in the comments below.
Part of it is that Voyager has the unenviable role of being one of TNG’s two successor shows. The other was DS9, and everything looks bad sitting next to DS9. Part of why DS9 was able to do the wild things that it did was because the writing team had minimal supervision and were allowed to go buckwild- paramount were keeping a closer eye on first TNG, and then Voyager. Because of that, Voyager plays it safe and worships the status quo even when the fiction is begging to go in another direction, and the whole series has this feeling of having been written by committee. This even frustrated the writers, one of whom left the show out of frustration to go write the Battlestar Galactica reboot, which is essentially gritty, serialized Voyager
that said, I watched the whole thing and largely enjoyed it. you kind of have to meet it where it is, and accept that major plot details get glossed over and everyone takes turns holding the idiot ball. for me, the characters are what salvages the underwhelming plot. being a smaller ship, younger characters like Kim and Paris are able to be movers and shakers, giving the show a coming-of-age quality not found again until LDS and Progidy. Janeway is great when she’s not holding the idiot ball, it was really awesome seeing a captain who came up through science instead of command. When the blue or gold shirts give most captains a solution to a problem, they’re glad the problem it solved, but Janeway would get excited about the solution itself, sometimes even finishing Belana’s sentences.
Neelix had never so much as heard of starfleet, and had none of the training or skills even a crewman would need, but his good nature and see-a-need, fill-a-need ethos arguably makes him the most starfleet person on the boat. Kes is similar, with the added twist of dedicating herself to a voyage she won’t live to see the end of.
VOY spoilers
People say it was good that she left because there wasn’t much to do with her character, but to me that’s nonsense. Not being able to see her come to terms with her mortality and how that intersects with her psychic powers was easily the show’s biggest missed opportunity.
the doctor is an interesting inversion of the good idea/meh execution pattern because his concept is unremarkable- essentially a rehash of Data learning to be human, just accidentally and with sarcasm- but the execution was incredible. later on when 7of9 joins the cast, she displaces him as The Data but he remains a main character and takes on a mentorship role which allows him to develop even further
all in all, it’s a show full of then-new and brilliant ideas that regularly fumbles the execution. and that isn’t for everyone, especially with the plethora of other great trek out there. but if you watch it and are able to forgive the not great scenario writing you might enjoy it nonetheless
Part of why DS9 was able to do the wild things that it did was because the writing team had minimal supervision and were allowed to go buckwild
This does explain the high highs and the low lows.
Ironically, my definition of “the high highs” would be the lighter “hang out on the space station” episodes, and the “low lows” would be the grittier “Section 31 has let us bomb the shit out of civillians, go Prophet! Praise the
gods!wormhole aliens!” which I assume is the stuff that people praise for “realism and moral choices”.I didn’t know that bit about supervision. I didn’t check who the writers were, but even if they were the same, it makes sense that that would play a big role.
Like the other two, it takes a season or so to find it’s footing. I like a female captain, former enemies working together, and ship out of water stories. The redemptive and maturity arc of Paris, and his friendship with Kim. The Doctor and 7 learning what it is to be human. Chakotay’s beliefs aren’t made fun of, but explored. The hopefulness that even thrown across the galaxy, humans can (most of the time) stay true to their beliefs. That you can overcome your upbringing to become a better person. There’s lots to like.
Jane way and Paris boink as animals. And then the tension and awkwardness afterwards when they are humans again. I found that delightfully hilarious.
The doctor is hilarious and I want B’lanna to step on me
It was still a lot better than whatever else was on TV at 8 PM in 1997. That’s pretty much where I’m at with it.
It definitely gets better as it goes along. It’s a great concept for a ST show, and the cast is strong. And aside from resting too heavily on the holodeck, and having a few real lemon episodes (like the one where Janeway and Paris turn into amphibians), it’s pretty dependable. But yeah, the first 2-3 seasons can be a chore to watch.
It got a lot of hate for the first 15-20 years, but it seems like it’s getting a bit more appreciation these days. So I think it’s agreed pretty well.
On a non-ST show topic, I highly recommend Stargate SG-1 if you haven’t already seen it. Really fun show that also gets better in the later seasons (especially around seasons 6 and 7). Some very clever ideas, a lore-rich universe, a very solid cast, and it manages to hit hard with the drama sometimes while still not taking itself too seriously (and actually has a surprising amount of comedy).
Some of the criticisms definitely make sense. Parts of the premise are barely utilized. Some characters barely change at all. The finale makes a complete joke of one of the major threats in the setting. Janeway somehow manages to challenge Sisko for being the most liberal about Starfleet principles while simultaneously being a hardass when others do it. Neelix has screen time. (No offense to Ethan Phillips who did a wonderful job portraying him; the character just happens to be intensely annoying.)
I’m not going to list “the first episodes/seasons suck in comparison” as a downside; that’s a fairly common Trek ailment. People need time to nail those shows down.
On the plus side, it does make for a good space cozy and it takes the Trek ethos way more seriously than some newer shows. Some of the ideas it comes up with are genuinely cool. It has some of the better holodeck episodes. The Doctor is a better vehicle for exploring the rights of artificial sentiences than Data (The Measure of a Man notwithstanding). Seven of Nine was added as a mobile pair of tits and somehow ended up massively upgrading the show in terms of character development.
I’d say that out of the TNG/DS9/VOY/ENT quartet it’s definitely the second weakest but it’s not a bad show overall.
I hadn’t watched any Star Trek for years. Then, just yesterday, I was watching regular TV and this episode of Voyager came on. Me and my son watched it. It was the one where it turns out they’re all clones and basically, in the end, they all melt just before the real crew can help them. It was such a cool story, aided, in no small part, by a scene in a Jeffrey’s tube where 7 of 9 discusses monogamy with B’elanna.
My favourite thing about Voyager is Seven of Nine, but she doesn’t debut until season 4
I cynically thought that she was just eye candy, but she could handle anything the writers threw at her. She’s a great character.
So far, I’m not finding it as enjoyable as the other two.
That’s 'cause it’s not.
It’s still good enough to be worth watching, though.
Voyager has more and good horror episodes, so if you like those you’ll like VOY. It’s best enjoyed an episode a day rather than binged. Put one on after work l, that’s how I watched it
Yeah, at the time Voyager came out I considered it the worst of the Star Trek live action series. It’s since been surpassed many times over for that title, but there’s still a lot of episodes that are not very good individually and the overall premise of the show was wasted.
That said, there are a few very good episodes, and a couple of the characters were really enjoyable. The Doctor and 7 of 9 became some of my favourite Star Trek characters across the franchise.
Unfortunately Janeway was an inconsistent psychopath and Chakotay was a block of wood. So they had to struggle against the background.
It’s been too long for my memory to be able to dredge up a recommended viewing list of the best episodes to focus on, but perhaps you could scrounge one up on the web somewhere. Voyager was back in the day when series had a lot of episodes and a lot of them were relatively stand-alone so skipping over a bunch likely won’t hurt if you pick them well.
The guy who played Chakotay (Robert Beltran) literally did not want to be there. He kept asking to quit and they kept giving him more money to stay.
Whether the living wooden totem was a result of the character or the actor, or a little bit of both is kind of hard to say. But you’ll notice he stops doing all the “isn’t it cool he’s a Native American” business fairly early in the run, so someone clearly got bored with it all, writers or actor.
Unfortunately Janeway was an inconsistent psychopath
I love this discription. It also begs the question; could another captain have brought Voyager home? I’d argue Janeway’s psychopathy was what kept them alive. Essentially she spent the entire time in a state of emergency, and had to act accordingly. Tuvix (as hated as the episode is haha) was a great example. Boiled down, Voyager needed it’s chief tactical officer and even Neelix, who showed usefulness multiple times, more than a new being who would leave the ship. Ethical or not, she consistently did what had to be done for the ship and crew. I’m not sure Picard’s integrity would have kept them alive.
Not a fan of anything past DS9 either. Voyager by it’s nature was too far removed from the familiar setting of the original/TNG and the ever simmering political tension between the Federation/Klingons/Romans.
The main characters in Voyager were also not terribly compelling. I personally found lots of side characters in TNG like Barclay and O’Brien were just way more interesting than relatively forgettable main characters in Voyager like Harry Kim, Chakotay, or Torres.
Towards the end they entirely leaned too far into tired borg shit. But hey it was was good for star trek related memes at least :>
You should check out Strange New World, it’s really pretty good
