I have posted here from time to time about my lowly Kia Soul from 2015. We’re currently at 91,450 or so in mileage. I just found out thanks to a helpful Valvoline tech that we’re burning oil at an accelerated rate. Apparently, my stupid behind doesn’t know how to properly check oil, because when I checked it 2 weeks ago it appeared to be full. However, yesterday the guy said the oil was barely registering on the dipstick. There’s absolutely no sign of leaks, so this mother freaking GDI engine has to be burning what’s missing.
This is all backed up by the fact that towards the end of an oil change interval, I’m getting a periodic knock on acceleration. It appears that this was my poor 2.0L engine starving for oil. After the oil change, there’s magically no noise at all. In the back of my mind I kept thinking that the noise sounded like sucking too little fluid through a straw, and it seems like that’s very close to what was happening.
I have an offer in hand from CarMax from an appointment yesterday, and they’ll give me $5,500 for my current car.
This leads me to go looking for alternatives. I’m trying not to have a huge payment, so I’m trying to stay under $10,000. That prevents me from considering any Toyotas or Hondas unless they are very old or very high mileage.
Looking around, I found a 2015 Ford Fusion hybrid ( titanium edition) with 115,000 miles for $11,000 from a local Honda dealership that I trust. I also found a 2017 Ford Fusion hybrid at a Ford dealership that I do not know about 40 miles away at $9,880 with 109,000 miles.
I know Fords are not generally well regarded these days, but all my research points to Fusion hybrids being reliable, lasting up to 250,000 miles or more. Given that I’ve put less than 92,000 miles on my Kia in 10 years, it seems like either of these might be a good buy for me that would be well within my budget.
With all that said, I invite you guys to play: Is it better than my 2015 Kia Soul?
Respectfully, trading in a car for a similar model year with MORE mileage and paying double what you’re getting is absolutely insane.
Yeah, I’m just constantly paranoid with all the issues with Kia engines. I already had one of the major issues with this car (catalytic converter failure), and every noise makes me cringe. I’m probably overreacting, but I’m afraid of the car blowing up and leaving me with nothing. Kia’s supposed to replace them via an extended 150,000 mile power train warranty, but I have seen people complain that they’re denied sometimes. I’m just always nervous about it, and this is not the first time I’ve heard this noise around the oil change interval.
I feel you. An electrically sound, not totaled frame vehicle with a blown engine isn’t worth $0 thankfully. So even worst case you can get some money. Just set a little aside for the eventuality.
I also assumed the Kia is paid for already. If you have payments on it still, then I’d say absolutely dump it lol
Yeah, the thing that keeps me going with it is that I have no payments. I bought it new, and it’s been paid for a couple of years. However, if something serious does go, and I don’t get a warranty replacement thanks to the class action lawsuit regarding these engines, it’s going to be next to worthless. An OEM catalytic converter was quoted to me as somewhere between $3,000 and $4,000. I was able to get an aftermarket one installed for about $1,200, which is no small expense for me, but at least it wasn’t as high a percentage of the car’s value. I’m just wondering if I have more expenses like this, when does it make economic sense for me to cut my losses and get what I can get for it?
Not sure where you’re located but for that price you’re gonna end up buying a car with similar issues if not more. Just do more frequent oil changes and top it off every now and then. Don’t let the oil get low enough to knock anymore. You’re killing the engine. Gonna break a piston rod or something.
Make sure the engine is cold and car is on level surface. Pull the dipstick out and wipe it clean. Insert it and check. Sometimes dipsticks are hard to read. Ur looking for oil level on any side of the stick. Take a look at the level after an oil change to know what to look for.
You can learn to do your own oil changes and save at least $100 per change if you’re doing synthetic. Just need an oil catch pan, ratchet and the right socket for the plug, possible something to unscrew the filter cuz people be putting that on too tight, and some jack stands. Do not be afraid of harbor freight or amazon to get this stuff cheap, unless you’re trying to boycott these types of places.
When I checked it, I made sure it was on level ground, because I’ve made the mistake of checking it in my driveway (which has . I pulled the dipstick and wiped it before reinserting and pulling it. It was wet all the way to the top of the target area when I did that, but I had been running the engine within the last 5 minutes, so it seems like I sabotaged myself. I’d always thought that if you ignored the reading when you first pulled it and then re-dipped it, you would get a good read. Apparently I’m a damned idiot.
The recommended oil change interval is 7,500 miles. I’ve been trying to do it at least every 5,000, but I’ve effectively been doing it every 3,000 in the last two oil changes.
I’ve heard the knocking before, but I thought that issue had been resolved when I had my catalytic converter replaced. What I didn’t recognize is that I had an oil change around the same time so it’s entirely possible that when I stopped hearing the noises it just had enough oil. The symptoms I had for the catalytic converter failure were more serious-- severe power loss and such, but it looks now like the knocking I would hear sometimes was likely unrelated.
I would change my own oil, but my driveway is on a pretty significant angle, and I’m concerned that if I change and the only place that I really have to change it, that the angle will make things not drain properly or lead me to overfill or underfill. I’m also fairly afraid of messing up and trashing the car.
I do try to do things that I feel confident about. I do change the air filters, both engine and cabin. I’ve changed the PCV valve, though it played merry hell on my nerves when I couldn’t get the original off easily. I eventually was able to loosen it and get it off without damage, and I installed the replacement without issue, but I’m always worried about doing something stupid.
When I was younger, I was bold enough to change my own brake pads on a Nissan hardbody truck, but I later got myself into trouble when I tried to replace the distributor on that same truck and had to have it towed. Since then, I’ve been cautious about what I would do for myself. I really wish there was some sort of damn class I could take. At the very least, I’d feel a hell of a lot better if there were Haynes or Chilton manual for my car, but apparently that’s not a thing with some automakers these days.
Sorry to hear about the cat. Hopefully you didn’t need a CARB compliant.
Yeah it was cuz you had recently run the engine. Now you know. I would just keep checking it now and then and do the 3K intervals with synthetic if you can. If there’s nothing else wrong with the car, I wouldn’t be too concerned. Some engines are just known to burn fuel but might be worth doing some research to find out if there’s something causing it. Maybe do valve cover gaskets if it’s not a bitch in that model/year. Good luck!
The oil system might be clogged up somewhere, you could try adding some Seafoam to the oil to see if that helps. Its worth a shot lol 🤷🏻
I’ve heard some people talk about Seafoam like it was the best thing ever, but I’ve also heard some people suggest it was worthless or even harmful. I’m willing to try it, but is there any chance that it might cause me some trouble?
I’ve found auto-rx works wonders.
If you dont have one already, now seems like a good time to also look for a good mechanic you feel you can trust. I’d start by asking around with folks you know- in my experience the best mechanics have customers that will gladly tell you they’re amazing and send you their way
Its hard to have much confidence in what’s going on with the car if you dont work on it yourself and have visibility to how things are going, or have someone trustworthy you can ask to help you assess what’s going on, and get perspective on whether you need to be worried
If you decide to replace it you can also as them to check out the new car for you, which could be massively helpful
There’s at least two shops I trust pretty well. I don’t have the sort of relationship with them where I actually interact with the mechanic–everyone has a front office these days. I do think I can trust what they do and the info they do share, though. I’m pretty confident I can get a prepurchase inspection when I need.
Anecdotally, yeah the fusion hybrid is a decent car. Personally, I don’t pay for higher trim levels if I have the option - just means more things to break. Do either of these cars come with a warranty from the dealer?
One low oil reading doesn’t necessarily mean you’re burning oil. It could have an improper fill last time as well. I’d personally wait until the next oil change, and maybe send off an oil sample to be tested (pretty cheap to do). You can learn if it is in fact burning oil, and also if the low oil condition caused damage based on the analysis. If it turns out to be fine, might save you $5k.
For checking oil, always wipe the dipstick clean and put it back for a few seconds, and then remove again to check. That removes the oil that can splash up and obscure the proper reading.
The fusions under consideration are 10 years and 8 years old respectively, so I’m thinking all original warranties are invalid. Given that they are dealerships, I would imagine there would be a three to five thousand or 60 to 90 day warranty for these used vehicles.
Like I’ve said elsewhere in the comments, I’ll be monitoring levels and adding as needed going forward. If I never get my knocking again, I think it’s a pretty good indication that my working theory about this whole thing is right. However, I am interested in the oil testing you mentioned. How would I go about doing that? Do the testing facilities provide some sort of kit for collecting the oil? I know I can Google this stuff, but I’d be interested to see what your recommendations are.
As for the methodology of checking the oil, I’ve always pulled the stick, cleaned it off, stuck it back in, and then read it when I pulled it again. It’s been suggested that since I haven’t necessarily checked it when the engine was cold that I might be getting a bad reading. I have not tended to read it cold because my driveway has a pretty steep grade, so I always need to move the car to make sure I get an accurate reading. It’s also possible that I’m not reading it right, but when I read it as full, it looks the same way as it does when I’m presented with the dipstick after my oil changes, with the oil covering the section between empty and full on the stick.
God, I feel like such a flipping idiot. Who doesn’t know how to read their oil dipstick?
If you do decide to test, something like this would be what I’d use: https://www.blackstone-labs.com/standard-oil-testing/
For reading the dipstick, yes, hot/cold can have a difference, but usually not enough to cause the condition you’re describing, unless you check it IMMEDIATELY after turning off the engine. Don’t be too hard on yourself, you’re asking all the right questions. Checking on a flat surface vs a steep driveway is far more important.
Out of curiosity, do you have a photo of the dipstick as you’re reading it?
I’ll check it soon and take a picture to share. I have zero pride left in this area, so I’m willing to do it to double check that I’m doing it right!
I’ll send off for that testing kit, too. That seems like exactly what will help me get a better picture of what is really happening.
Personally I’d keep adding oil, unless it was mega bad at burning oil. I think take some detailed logs before making any drastic decisions. Check meticulously for awhile, track oil level and mileage and see how much oil you’re burning per mile. Add oil accordingly.
Also, have you done the valve cleaning service? You can diy id you have the time. I have a gdi fro Hyundai Kia and i do the 3500 oil change interval. Valvoline sells a Restore and Protect oil thats making us gdi owners happy. Give it a try. Follow the sever service intervals for kias and hyundais.
I’ve done the intake cleaning with the spray into the intake that goes into the throttle body. After I waited an hour, I took it on the road and put my foot down going onto the interstate. Put out a Billie of white smoke like you wouldn’t believe. Changed the oil after as directed.
Is there something else that needs to be done with that?
I’ll look into that Valvoline oil, for sure.
Sounds good. Try to gague the rate of usage by checking the oil level a few times a month. This reminds me that it’s time for me to check mine.
Anecdotal: I have a 2016 fusion titanium (not hybrid, 2.0L ecoboost). Bought it at 300,000kms, now up to 348,000km.
Aside from regular maintenance (brakes, oil, etc), the only thing I’ve done is a shock mount.
Apparently both 2015s and 2017s have issues that the 2016s don’t, so maybe I’m getting lucky, but I’m extremely impressed with this car for the mileage.
I’ve seen there’s a lot of issues from 2010-12, and that there are less issues later with the hybrids. The Ecoboost engines in the non-hybrids, though, are apparently disasters waiting to happen.
I wasn’t considering a Ford at all until I saw a 2012 with less than 50,000 miles at $8,000. Once I read about the power steering issues in those years, I decided against that one, but I did see a lot suggesting that Fusion Hybrids are durable in a way that most American power trains are not these days.
The oil change interval is the interval between oil changes where the manufacturer will cover damage/failure of the powertrain under warranty. If it’s 10,000 miles, you should be doing it at half that mileage or less. Some engines (especially high mileage engines) will burn oil, or consume oil.
If you haven’t had a coolant change, and aren’t doing proper oil changes at a reasonable interval your lack of proper maintenance is probably causing this premature failure.
It is likely that you will get a car with similar problems or problems that will cost the same amount to fix. So unless you’re planning to buy a car that’s cheap to fix and has some form of warranty, you’re just borrowing trouble.
Change the oil at a more frequent interval and save your money. Do maintenance the car needs (tire rotations, oil changes, coolant flushes, brake fluid flushes, tune up, filters etc) and check your fluids between changes.
I have been doing the oil changes significantly sooner than recommended, so I’ve got that under control. I’ll just have to be checking the oil in the proper fashion going forward in between changes and adding when I need it. Am I just going to add a little bit at a time, checking readings in between additions until it reads full?
I change my own air filters regularly. The coolant has been flushed really recently. The only thing that I have left to do right now is have a transmission fluid exchange. It is overdue for that. I haven’t had any problems with misfires that I’m aware of, so I don’t think I’m quite ready to change the plugs and coil packs, but I do know that that’s on the horizon. I’ll look at my maintenance schedule and see if there’s anything that I’m missing.
I think the reason I’ve been so clueless about the oil burning is that I didn’t see any leaks anywhere, and I’m not trailing black smoke, so I assumed there would be no issues with oil loss without those signs.
Usually you’d see oil in the exhaust if you’ve got a bad catalytic converter or the like bad valve stem seals. Most of the time that won’t happen just because the engine is burning oil unless you constantly run it hot/low on oil.
You mention that you don’t have a misfire/engine’s not running rough and that the car drives fine with exception of when the oil is low and you get knock.
If you had lack of power on acceleration, blue smoke from the engine compartment while the engine is running at op temp, or oil in the coolant system (you’d notice that since the coolant was recently changed) I’d say it’s time to get out from under this car and walk away with whatever you can get for it.
But based on what you’ve said in the thread it doesn’t sound like you have those kinds of problems.
Burning oil usually happens because of worn piston rings or the like. Maybe bad seals. Maybe a bad oil pump. Water pumps that go bad and cause a lot of buildup because of in efficient heat dissipation. It seems most likely given what you’ve said that it’s worn rings.
Topping off the oil is probably a better bet than buying a used car in the current market. The used car prices still haven’t fully recovered from the pandemic price surge.
Car max will buy your car, sell it at or just slightly below market value, and some poor SOB will buy it and be stuck with it. You’re likely to end up in the same boat as the person who buys your vehicle with only the amount of money you’ll get from the sale.
Ford’s Fusion has had various recalls and problems. If you’re buying from a dealership they’re required by law to have those recalls completed before you buy the vehicle. Make absolutely sure they have all been done. You can check this via the NTSB website by inputting the VIN of the vehicle.
They had freezing latches, bad shifter cable bushings, degraded brake pedal bumpers various electrical module recalls that may just require software updates but that depends by year, seatbelt recalls, ABS/HCU recalls, and front brake flexible hoses that could rupture and were recalled.
If it’s Ford’s fault make sure they fix it. I cannot stress this enough.
I wouldn’t buy another used car unless I was absolutely sure it was mint.
Get a different mechanic/tech you trust to have a look at any car you’re considering.
Dave’s Auto Center on YouTube has a used car buyer list of things to check that I recommend.
I think you’re right. What’s not super comforting is that Kia expects the damned things to burn oil, apparently. They’ll do a replacement if you burn an amount they consider beyond spec. The fact that there’s a consideration for how much oil it’s okay to burn tells me I’m likely never to be a customer again. I’ll be damned before I get anything that doesn’t have multi-port injection or dual injection going forward. From what I’ve learned, GDI can be okay, but city stop and go driving allows more chance for deposits. Someone here (a former Hyundai/Kia mechanic) advised me to take it on the road and put my foot down on it occasionally. I don’t know how much it helps, but I do have some visible exhaust when I do, so I feel like there’s some benefit, given that I’m usually way below highway speeds in my daily use.
I did read up on the Fusions and saw the issues. As long as you stick to the hybrids beyond the 2010-12 range and avoid the Ecoboost engines on the non-hybrids, they can go over 250,000 miles, apparently. Some people swear by them. Of course, Ford no longer makes them 🤡
As I’ve said elsewhere, I really wish I could get another Honda or Toyota. I’ve got a CR-V hybrid for my wife, and I love that thing.
When I do eventually get another one, I do plan to research everything and get a prepurchase inspection, for sure.
I wish I could say Kia are the only automotive company that expect their cars to consume some oil. Ford has a problem with it in the 5.0 lt engines. So much so that last I checked they were replacing whole engines on certain model year F series trucks and their Expedition.
My damn Mini has the same problem. I gotta check the oil every other week and top off. mini says it’s normal. I’ll probably end up having the engine rebuilt at some point over it.
I can’t believe how expensive used cars still are and I wish I had better news. But yeah. With a GDI you gotta drive it hard occasionally in order to burn off that buildup. I’d follow that advice.
