Look, we can debate the proper and private way to do Captchas all day, but if we remove the existing implementation we will be plunged into a world of hurt.

I run tucson.social - a tiny instance with barely any users and I find myself really ticked off at other Admin’s abdication of duty when it comes to engaging with the developers.

For all the Fediverse discussion on this, where are the github issue comments? Where is our attempt to convince the devs in this.

No, seriously WHERE ARE THEY?

Oh, you think that just because an “Issue” exists to bring back Captchas is the best you can do?

NO it is not the best we can do, we need to be applying some pressure to the developers here and that requires EVERYONE to do their part.

The Devs can’t make Lemmy an awesome place for us if us admins refuse to meaningfully engage with the project and provide feedback on crucial things like this.

So are you an admin? If so, we need more comments here: https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy/issues/3200

We need to make it VERY clear that Captcha is required before v0.18’s release. Not after when we’ll all be scrambling…

EDIT: To be clear I’m talking to all instance admins, not just Beehaw’s.

UPDATE: Our voices were heard! https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy/issues/3200#issuecomment-1600505757

The important part was that this was a decision to re-implement the old (if imperfect) solution in time for the upcoming release. mCaptcha and better techs are indeed the better solution, but at least we won’t make ourselves more vulnerable at this critical juncture.

  • @[email protected]
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    010 months ago

    Right now the instance admins that I’m working with are largely independent with only a couple of outliers. The newer instances that have just joined the fediverse didn’t really echo back their concerns. So while you’re statement might be true (I dunno, I don’t see any coordination, and it’s not always clear what admin concerns are important.) the rapid growth has brought even more stakeholders and admins to the fediverse.

    Are you in the Matrix server? This is where the coordination is happening between both maintainers and the development community, as well as playing out across Github issues.

    I’m going to need more proof of deeper coordination, because as it stands many Admins say “Devs are tankies” and refuse to federate with the maintainer’s instance, let alone contribute code or money.

    You just said you’re only interacting with a small group of independent admins, but now you’re making a conflated statement of “many Admins”. They have a right to their opinion, but they can’t also expect the maintainers and devs/admins who are contributing code to listen to their demands when they’re bringing nothing to the table except complaints and personal attacks.

    You have the choice to either support with code, support with money, or be happy with what you got for free and if you don’t like something you can make changes to it yourself.

    The only reason you got what you wanted in the end was because someone else put in the work to make it happen, which I’m certain would have happened regardless of your post because it was already being raised both in the Matrix channel amongst other admins as well as by ruud.

    • th3raid0rOPA
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      10 months ago

      Guess I best get over there then. Sounds like a place to voice my concerns without resorting to public appeals.

      You just said you’re only interacting with a small group of independent admins, but now you’re making a conflated statement of “many Admins”.

      I can be working with a small set of independent instance admins (brought together by a newer instance and discussions mostly through discord) and I’ve helped them test a few things and our little discord meta-community is already constructing new features, auto-posting bots of different types (RSS feeds, even posts, etc), and a few other things.

      However, this is different from “Most Admins” where my interactions are largely based in the meta/support channels for other instances. This is a much more confusing population to me since many were exposed to the entire “Lemmy is for Authoritarian Communists” that was making the rounds on reddit. It’s resulted in a newer cohort of Admins that aren’t nearly as friendly to the development team.

      The only reason you got what you wanted in the end was because someone else put in the work to make it happen

      Nah, I would’ve made the change myself, but it wouldn’t do a darn thing because it depends on the inherent security of less technical admins. This project is as much impacted by individual decisions as they are collective ones.

      And until the maintainers changed their mind, they likely wouldn’t have allowed a resurrection of the old Captcha anyways - so your point about another person “doing the work” only was really possible once the maintainers communicated that it was acceptable. Because, as stated in my previous point, an individual instance with this change (reverting captcha) doesn’t protect them from instances that don’t.

      This all points back to my original point which revolves around new admins understanding the importance of engaging the maintainers and making themselves heard. The fact that people who already do this took offence to my post is a little bizarre because I’m clearly not talking about the people who have been communicating.

      Sure, those who’ve been with the Fediverse for a bit are familiar with Matrix and how to use it to communicate back to the core developers. But the new influx of instances and their admins either A - don’t know where to go, B - don’t care, or C - are so ideologically opposed to the rumors they want nothing to do with them.